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derspatz said:
No they are not.

If you bothered to actually look instead of shooting off your mouth in ignorance you will soon discover all sorts of sensible "controls" have been and are continuing to be developed and supported.

Developed and supported by people who are also righfully mindful about protecting a well designed constitution.

Developed and supported by people who own and use and/or support the ownership and use of firearms.

regarDS
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The article and quoted data compiled by the United Nations flies in the face of what you are saying.


Chart: The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country
Posted by Max Fisher on December 14, 2012 at 4:50 pm

firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

Data source: United Nations (Max Fisher — The Washington Post)

The Sandy Hook Elementary shooting that killed 27, including 20 children, is already generating the same conversation that every mass shooting in America generates: Why are there so many shootings?

One piece of this puzzle is the national rate of firearm-related murders, which is charted above. The United States has by far the highest per capita rate of all developed countries. According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.

The above chart measures data for the nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which includes all Western countries plus Turkey, Israel, Chile, Japan, and South Korea. I did not include Mexico, which has about triple the U.S. rate due in large part to the ongoing drug war.

The rate in several developing countries, particularly in Latin America, is significantly higher. Honduras, which has been called the murder capital of the world, has an average firearm murder rate that’s about 20 times America’s. But make no mistake: For a rich, developed country, the U.S. gun-related homicide rate is very, very high.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ed-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/

I am sure you will scour the net to find some sort of opposing info.
 
Gun deaths in 1 year: Japan - 2 Finland - 1 Australia - 35 England and Wales - 39 Spain - 60 Germany - 194 Canada - 200 USA - 9,484.
 
Yep and while I acknowledge people can kill using other weapons no other handheld device freely available to the public can cause such killing en masse.
 
Medusa said:
Oh well...another thread shot to bloody hell *sigh*
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Heh. Nice one centurion.

kxk said:
Well i knew it was a mistake to read a post of yours.
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I knew it would be a mistake to expect you to enter into reasonable and logical debate let alone have the courage to defend your choice of beliefs and submit them to public scrutiny.

Obviously you are not secure in them. Oh well. Your life, your choice.

Must hurt you that your beloved HOWARD introduced gun control and is agittating for the USA tyo do the same
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I think you will find that Oz has had an ever evolving "gun control" since long before "HOWARD", and that Oz "gun control", is still evolving. I think you will also find that, just like in the USofA, "gun" owners and users or supporters of "gun" ownership and use have much to do with that ever evolving "gun control".

Jam said:
^^ Only decent thing Howard did during his term.
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Lotsa legal firearm owners and users were Very Pleased indeed with the whole "buy back" thing for it allowed them to get Top Dollar from the tax payer for out-dated unsellable tech and use it to legally buy the latest and greatest. It didn't affect me and my legally owned Winchester full-choke shotgun at all and nor did it bother folk who illegally already had illegal firearms and no doubt still continue to do so.

As to the effectiveness of that particular phase re: the evolution of "gun" control feel free to read the following from the University of Sydney from around 12 years later wot I just noticed somebody had posted over at whirlpool on the same topic. See: http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=2240

You lot really don't have a clue do you ... but my how quick you are to display how prone you are towards having Big Government Control over other people's lives. Are you misanthropists or merely just freedom haters ? When will you lot make the better choice to simply "live and let live" instead of so regularly opting for censorship and banning and the like ? :p :D

eliza said:
The article and quoted data compiled by the United Nations flies in the face of what you are saying.
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No it doesn't in even the slightest. As everyone can plainly see the article (by one of the biggest most misanthropic freedom hating totalitarian minded Big Government organisations the world currently and increasingly suffers under) you have "scoured the net" for is actually about the mis-use of firearms and nothing at all to do with my point that in the USofA "all sorts of sensible "controls" have been and are continuing to be developed and supported. Developed and supported by people who are also rightfully mindful about protecting a well designed constitution. Developed and supported by people who own and use and/or support the ownership and use of firearms."

Interesting though that you chose to "scour the net" for some sort of info on how firearms have been mis-used rather than to actually investigate the topic of how firearm owners and users and/or supporters of firearm ownership and use are helping develop and support "controls" in relation to fiream ownership and use.

Why did you choose to do that ?

regarDS
 
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eliza said:
I didn't scour the net, it was the FIRST result that came up when I googled "gun related killings"
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Which was actually nothing to do with my point about the contributions of firearm owners (etc) re: the development and support of firearm control.

Anyhoo, at least you've now admitted that you weren't searching for what I was talking about and, by doing so, have implied that you were wrong to suggest that what you found "flew in the face" of what I was talking about.

I forgive you. Feel free to go and sin no more. :D

eliza said:
Yep and while I acknowledge people can kill using other weapons no other handheld device freely available to the public can cause such killing en masse.
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Yup, "one man with a gun can control a hundred without one" and all that. Tis a sword that cuts both ways though and I for one see no reason to trust the likes of EMILY lister Fabian socialist Julia Gillard and her ilk and ideology with determining such things or being the "one man with the gun".

History has repeatedly shown the bad things that happen when her kind get to that level of control. Tis also why the USofA is correct to not allow the government to hold their constitution to contempt and disarm the general population.

Governments should "fear" the people and not the other way around.

Anyhoo, speaking of handheld devices freely available to the public, anyone else in here enjoy the youtubes this guy so regularly puts out ?

See: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave/videos?view=0

This one is hardly handheld but I reckon is Way Qool

[youtubevid]_AySuafZ8to[/youtubevid]

but howz these ballistic gel tests with the slingbows, etc !

[youtubevid]jOd6r2x-j7I[/youtubevid]

Amazing what can be done with a bit of surgical rubber, bits and pieces from around the shed, and some imagination, hmmm ?

regarDS
 
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Quote Derspatz

I knew it would be a mistake to expect you to enter into reasonable and logical debate let alone have the courage to defend your choice of beliefs and submit them to public scrutiny.

Obviously you are not secure in them. Oh well. Your life, your choice.

Not about me, not about you - distraction tactics work on morons Derspatz, and you seem to assume you know me but what's the point?
Oh and your assumptions are generally wrong.
 
What really pisses me off are the opportunists..... Like these two guys

These shootings happened because "god isn't in the classroom"

From Mike Huckabee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huckabee...l-carnage-when-weve-removed-god-from-schools/

Bryan Fischer
http://www.mediaite.com/online/chri...-because-we-took-prayer-out-of-the-classroom/

SERIOUSLY ..... Do they even share the same planet as us?

And a press secretary at the White House "now is not the time to talk about gun control"

When will be the time? When we have someone run through the whitehouse killing everyone?
 
Wally said:
Gun deaths in 1 year: Japan - 2 Finland - 1 Australia - 35 England and Wales - 39 Spain - 60 Germany - 194 Canada - 200 USA - 9,484.
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and I think you will find most of our 35 were gang related. not some maniac shooting small children that all they wanted to do was learn.
 
I don't know which is worse: the incredible sense of sadness I feel for the families of these poor babies and teachers or the incredible sense of anger I feel at the idiots on both sides of the fence using this senseless tragedy to try and further their political agendas.
 
Mud Cake said:
What really pisses me off are the opportunists..... Like these two guys

These shootings happened because "god isn't in the classroom"

From Mike Huckabee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/huckabee...l-carnage-when-weve-removed-god-from-schools/

Bryan Fischer
http://www.mediaite.com/online/chri...-because-we-took-prayer-out-of-the-classroom/

SERIOUSLY ..... Do they even share the same planet as us?

And a press secretary at the White House "now is not the time to talk about gun control"

When will be the time? When we have someone run through the whitehouse killing everyone?
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Governor Huckabee is also a Baptist Minister, so I believe his comments are influenced by his religious beliefs.
 
Mud Cake said:
What really pisses me off are the opportunists.... Like these two guys

These shootings happened because "god isn't in the classroom"
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So, when certain folk (including in here) immediately raise a "waa" alone the lines of "ban guns", "obama save us" etc, you choose to not see them as "opportunists" and don't get "pissed off". Same goes for when certain folk blame "aspergers" or "autism" or "being like ben from BB 2012, etc, etc, etc.

But folk dare suggest that the Big Problem is in fact how people have turned their backs on Jesus and have chosen darkness rather than to walk in the light of His Word and all that ... well, then its time for you to froth at the mouth and let the spittle fly as you rave about "opportunists", eh ?

And you don't see yourself as being hypocritical ?

And a press secretary at the White House "now is not the time to talk about gun control"
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The press secretary is correct. Now is the time for the USofA to mourn its tragically and horribly slain.

Besides, just like in Oz, the USofA already has (and has had for a long time) so called "gun control".

It, just like in Oz, also has road rules and drinking laws, etc.

Generally, both here and there, all of that seems to work pretty well don't you think ?

regarDS
 
Daltrim said:
Governor Huckabee is also a Baptist Minister, so I believe his comments are influenced by his religious beliefs.
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I am aware of that....... Religion and politics should not be together but separate...... Ever heard of Separation of church and state...The two should not be together.
 
Another tragic example of the following:

[youtubevid]kFnFr-DOPf8[/youtubevid]

This time from 1927 with the murderer killing 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults including his wife, himself, and at least 58 other people injured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

According to that link, as a teen the mass murderer had accidentally contributed to the death of his step-mother and, when near 50yo, his neighbors regarded him as being an intelligent man who was impatient with all who disagreed with him and how he was cruel to his farm animals, having once beaten a horse to death.

Interesting that, even from way back then, far more is recorded / appears to be known about the mass murderer than is about his victims who were just going about their daily business and/or contributing selflessly to the good of the community by being volunteer firefighters and rescue workers and the like.

Perhaps if humanity was less inclined to "remember" the names of those who choose to selfishly do such Evil, there would be less people commiting such atrocities ?

Like, if such misanthropic criminals knew that, at most, they would only ever be referred to in the media as "X" (as in "X" killed 28 people including 26 defenseless school children and teachers whose names were Charlotte Bacon, 6; Daniel Barden, 7; Rachel Davino, 29; Olivia Engel, 6; Josephine Gay, 7; Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 6; Dylan Hockley, 6; Dawn Hocksprung, 47; Madeline F. Hsu, 6; Catherine V Hubbard, 6; Chase Kowalski, 7; Jesse Lewis, 6; James Mattioli, 6; Grace McDonnell, 7; Anne Marie Murphy, 52; Emile Parker, 6; Jack Pinto, 6; Noah Pozner, 6; Caroline Previdi, 6; Jessica Rekos, 6; Avielle Richman, 6; Lauren Russeau, 30; Mary Sherlach, 56; Victoria Soto, 27; Benjamin Wheeler, 6; Allison N. Wyatt, 6;), they would be more inclined to just go and quitely hang themselves in a corner instead ?

The sad thing I must admit though is that even after reformating that list of murdered kids and teachers, it is the name of the murderer, his brother, and his mother that I am more likely to recall without trying. :(

Same sort of thing with you ?

regarDS
 
Mud Cake said:
I am aware of that....... Religion and politics should not be together but separate...... Ever heard of Separation of church and state...The two should not be together.
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Apologies to Inigo, but "you keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means"

For Oz:
"Ch 5 § 116 The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

The language is derived from the United States' constitution, but has been altered. Following the usual practice of the High Court, it has been interpreted far more narrowly than the equivalent US sections and no law has ever been struck down for contravening the section. Today, the Commonwealth Government provides broad-based funding to religious schools and also funds school chaplains for public and private schools. All Australian parliaments are opened with a Christian prayer, and the preamble to the Australian Constitution refers to a "humble reliance" on the blessing of Almighty God."

Although the Australian monarch is Queen Elizabeth II, also British monarch and Governor of the Church of England, her Australian title is unrelated to her religious office and she has no role in the Anglican Church of Australia. The prohibition against religious tests has allowed former Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane Peter Hollingworth to be appointed Governor-General of Australia, the highest domestic constitutional officer; however, this was criticized."

For the USofA:
"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

In short, in neither country was it ever designed or intended to prevent followers of Jesus or believers of any religion (including atheism or even fabianism) from holding public office.

Surely you were "aware of that" ?

regarDS
 
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What the fuck has any of this crap got to do with stopping babies from being slaughtered???

And just why are you glorifying past murderers?

Derspatz before I put you back on ignore where you belong in your alternate universe - only took you off when BB was coming - so..
What is your religion? are you a born again christian?
Don't answer if you don't want, I'll just assume:)
 
Since gun politics are so stuffed USA - they should just hold a referendum - all get to vote on guns, the majority want tighter gun controls so it would win, and now is the time.

And far out how currently any nutbag can get a gun, and you can buy them at supermarkets.

Have you ever dealt with unmedicated schizophrenics, bi-polar sufferers, people hullucinating and stuff?
And they can get a gun USA, I would be dead.........I have been physically assaulted in my line of work by unmedicated mentally unwell.
One I'm sure would have shot me, hell he was dressed in army fatigues and calling himself a Colonel (not true of course).
 
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kxk said:
Since gun politics are so stuffed USA
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No they are not. They are merely just not to your liking.

Which reminds me, how are you going with telling the forum who or what you use as a measure/benchmark of right and wrong and morality and all that ?

And far out how currently any nutbag can get a gun, and you can buy them at supermarkets.
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What, like the murderer of his mother and all those school kids and teachers did just a few days before the awful slayings ?

Oh hang on, no he didn't/couldn't. Thanks to "gun controls" "the nutjob" was refused and unable to "buy them at the supermarket' or where-ever it was he tried .

... so he used his mother's legally obtained firearms instead (and it would seem, put four shots into her while she slept).

The short of it is that "gun controls" prevented him from buying his own weapons so, rather than sourcing something illegal off the black market, etc, he used somebody else's legally obtained firearms.

Nothing new in that; "where there is a will there is a way" for those determined enough.

regarDS
 
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