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Do we have a politics thread to discuss things political?

At least one point of amusement, for me at least, is the media being shocked that after weeks of neck and neck polling we've got a neck and neck result rather than the Liberal win they'd been saying was coming in spite of the polls.

Haha, I know, right? The polls have been saying 50-50 or 51-49 for ages... and now they are talking about Labor's "better than expected" result. No, the election result exactly matched the polls. Why is anyone surprised?
 
...I had to laugh... on this website below...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...p/news-story/5f186b61c849b4a76a661c7b755894cb

...there is a video clip of Tony Abbott leaving his place and as the garage door is rolling down the reporters start interviewing him... as they are the cameraman taking the video keeps scrolling down to Tony Abbott's hand that is holding his wallet... in it is what looks like a great wad of notes... mainly $50 notes sticking out of it... see below...

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...that looks like a hefty wad of notes to me... he can't just be popping down the shops for some milk with all of that cash can he?... hmmmmmmmmm!... perhaps it's earmarked for him to pay off some colleagues to replace Turnbull with himself perhaps?... lol!... (nothing like starting a conspiracy theory eh?... lol!... cheers.
 
he can't just be popping down the shops for some milk with all of that cash can he?

Hey man, hair replacement cream is not cheap stuff.
Speaking of, does anyone think Tony looks a lot healthier these days than he did as PM? Not that I liked him as a leader; and he has a somewhat questionable character; but it looks like he's a lot less stressed these days.
 
Also, Hooley, no need for such negativity

I did chuck a bit of a spanner in the senate - whether it works or not ? LOL .......

I don't think you'll be lol-ing when the fustercluck of a Senate can't pass anything and we're having another election within a year.

AND another thing I don't get it WHY those bloody ballot papers are longer than your arm? Why can we not vote online somehow? Save the trees! If somehow we can vote online, safely, a push of a button would complete the process and we would know, when the time was complete. Anyhow. I guess that is not how is works these days!

There are enough tin-foil hats surrounding the idea of using grey lead pencils on the ballot cards; online/e-voting raises even more issues with vote tampering.
 
...

There are enough tin-foil hats surrounding the idea of using grey lead pencils on the ballot cards; online/e-voting raises even more issues with vote tampering.

Yet sophisticated countries vote online, eg Switzerland, they vote about everything, and vote often, about once a month, online. Just buy their system:)
It will come eventually. Personally I love voting, and everything about it is fun, I would miss our cardboard booths:)
 
Haha, I know, right? The polls have been saying 50-50 or 51-49 for ages... and now they are talking about Labor's "better than expected" result. No, the election result exactly matched the polls. Why is anyone surprised?
Amusingly, betting odds were favouring the Libs, and some say punters (betting markets) are better predictors than the polls, lol. Either way, it's becoming more interesting, with Shorten now so confident the knives are coming out and he's angling for Turnbull to quit....

"Mr Turnbull proposed Senate reform. He has made a bad situation worse. How on earth did Mr Turnbull think that an idea of reform could end up with two or three One Nation senators in the Senate? This is farcical. Mr Turnbull clearly doesn’t know what he is doing. Frankly I think he should quit. He has taken this nation to an election on the basis of stability. He has delivered instability. His own party knows he is not up to the job, the Australian people know he is out of touch, and he has given a Senate reform which involves two or three One Nation senators. The bloke is not up to the job."

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...b0794b412fc066#block-5779e164e4b0794b412fc066
 
AND another thing I don't get it WHY those bloody ballot papers are longer than your arm? Why can we not vote online somehow? Save the trees! If somehow we can vote online, safely, a push of a button would complete the process and we would know, when the time was complete. Anyhow. I guess that is not how is works these days!

I don't see why they can't have two types of senate papers, one for people who are happy to vote "above-the-line" style and the full list for those who feel the need to vote "below-the-line" style.
 
Amusingly, betting odds were favouring the Libs, and some say punters (betting markets) are better predictors than the polls, lol. Either way, it's becoming more interesting, with Shorten now so confident the knives are coming out and he's angling for Turnbull to quit....

Yeah well it always seems to be the way that by the election if the best they are saying is that Labor "still has a chance", then you can pretty much be sure it's not going to happen.

The whole double dissolution was a disaster that has totally blown up in Turnbull's face. Who the hell is advising him? Abbott's crew???

I'm originally from NZ and they switched to a proportional voting system back in 1996. Because there is only one house, and that ends up being proportional, I think the current government is the first since 1996 to have a majority. Usually Labour or National there get 35% or 40% or whatever and then have to negotiate with the other parties to form a government. But it has worked out better than the Senate here where the fringe lunatic tail wags the dog - e.g. in NSW Fred Nile convincing the NSW government to hide the Ethics classes options for new school enrolments in order to push Special Religious Education.

So maybe they should do the same here? A single house, with all parties proportionally represented. If Greens get 10% of votes they get 10% of the seats. Do away with the Senate. The ALP would soon find it has more in common with the Greens than they think.
 
NZ is nothing like Aus, that would not work here.
For starters, NZ is not a Federation - so they don't face the issues we have that every state is like a sovereign country, governing is much easier in a non federation country.
And, they are tiny, both in population and in distances, they do not have the huge differences that Australians experience depending on your locality.
 
Yet sophisticated countries vote online, eg Switzerland, they vote about everything, and vote often, about once a month, online. Just buy their system:)
It will come eventually. Personally I love voting, and everything about it is fun, I would miss our cardboard booths:)

Yet when Americans vote using the e-vote booths; there have been numerous people questioning the legitimacy of these.
I mean you look at how many people used to think Big Brother voting was rigged? One of the things about paper votes is that parties are on hand and can dispute the result if there is questionable conduct. E-voting removes that.
 
they do not have the huge differences that Australians experience depending on your locality.
If that was really an issue, people would identify it and start the Queensland Party etc. But really, that is what state governments are for. You already have two levels of regional government (councils and state government) so federal government should be exactly that: overseeing the whole country not pandering to local issues. What I suggest would solve a lot of problems in governance and cost half as much as the present setup.
 
Oh no doubt it would be lovely, however, it cannot ever happen in this federation - our shitty system is so unwieldy, it takes forever to reform for example laws nationally, or even resemble each other, because every state is the equivalent of an independent country. Cannot believe how clunky things are, and some historical stuff about work qualifications being unacceptable between states, until the border cases not that long ago really.



People imagining vote rigging scenarios doesn't seem especially relevant, what has being stupid got to do with anything?
Australia does not have a history of dodgy elections, we are a fairly reliable non fraudulent democracy.

But anyway some countries are voting online successfully and some have had experiments go wrong, so it's very limited so far. Interesting article on topic...one issue they raise is of no concern to a country with compulsory voting, actually it is the main issue that concerns them...

Internet voting a success in two European countries
Posted on 12 February 2013
Internet voting has gone from private and military trials to mainstream politics in two European states. Professor Alexander H Trechsel discussed the Estonian and Swiss examples in a February seminar.

“Can introducing the internet as a means of casting votes lead to distortions in the political sphere? How neutral is this new technology?” Trechsel asked during the ‘Internet, law and politics’ seminar on 4 February.

Fears that e-voting would affect the outcome of elections was a key reason that trials within the US Army were shut down in the early 2000s, Trechsel said. A similar debate was happening across the Atlantic in Switzerland: “The left said the internet was just for rich people; rich people have access to the technology and are voting on the right, therefore it could be our death knell. The right said that the internet was a new thing for young people, and the young people are more on the left, so it’s not good for us.”

But whereas citizens in the US are still not able to vote online, the practice has been rolled out across Swiss cantons and was enshrined in Geneva’s constitution in 2009. The other European success story – Estonia – is remarkable owing to its political past. “Estonia was leapfrogging, going from a Soviet republic in 1989 to one of the most advanced democratic systems, in terms of the way they handle votes, in only 16 years,” said the professor, who led a Council of Europe-funded team researching e-voting in the country.

In both Estonia and Switzerland e-voting was introduced in part to tackle the problem of a decline in turnout, described by Trechsel as “one of the major problems of democracy”. Although the two countries differ greatly in their political history and structure, both states had a modern electoral administration, high levels of internet penetration and political will, which Trechsel said made them fertile ground for e-voting. Furthermore, “both cases were clever – they involved social scientists from the beginning, something other early movers [which failed to implement e-voting following trials] didn’t do. Their international work was very important; both the Swiss and the Estonians were very active in setting international standards”.

Voters can now use a card – or also a mobile phone ID in Estonia – to cast their ballot over a set period of time.Estonia rolled out e-voting in 2005 and by 2009 nearly a quarter of all votes cast were online, while the canton of Geneva in Switzerland says e-voting is now stable at around 20 per cent, a decade after the first binding e-votes were cast.

In Estonia, Trechsel found that around 16 per cent of e-voters said they probably would not have voted had internet voting been unavailable. “In 2009 this turnout loss [overall] would have been 2.6 per cent, so it’s a small effect on turnout. It’s very clear a convenience factor is important,” he said.

Another vital sign of a successful e-voting system is trust, Trechsel said, explaining that the Netherlands had to abandon the practice after its electronic voting machines were hacked, calling into question the reliability of the new technology.

Trust was found to be imperative not only in the technology but also the wider voting system: “You cannot see internet voting in separation from the entire system and functioning of the voting administration. If the voting administration is not properly functioning, there’s a high risk of internet voting not functioning either.”

Trechsel pointed to Italy, which will hold a national election on 24 and 25 February, as an example of a European state not yet ready to introduce e-voting due its “track record of electoral fraud”. Despite this, he saw potential for e-voting becoming a means to monitor elections and combat corruption. Overall the diffusion of internet voting is rising, with trials currently underway in Canada and Norway.

(Text by Rosie Scammell)

edit for source
http://www.eui.eu/News/2013/02-12-InternetvotingasuccessintwoEuropeancountries.aspx
 
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our shitty system is so unwieldy

Oh, I didn't even mention the best parts. You get two votes. One is for your local MP, and the other is which party you would prefer to actually be the government. So you can split your votes if you like your local MP but their party is otherwise useless (or, even better you can vote strategically).

And the ballot paper is A5 sized. No table cloth! (well, speaking of unwieldly).
 
When I posted about voting online - I meant that you still have to go to a polling booth and use their computer etc.

Also the spanner I threw in the works was more about what I believe in and Nicks Party hit a chord with me. I am so glad I chucked him a vote in the Senate. I really think he is clear minded and will be straight down the line.

I gave my vote to the Greens on my Green Paper, cause it was Green LOL - But My #2 was for the strong sitting Liberal Member that I knew would never be brought down. Sometimes, I think a message has to brought into it, and they see it through the numbers etc. Just to vote for the candidate outright, does not give the message if you do not agree with all their policies ..... if that makes any form of sense.

Also there are issues that need to be discussed - even though I did not have love for Hinch - He has something important to say and I really hope he can make a difference. Living in a small country town atm, and a place that paedophiles seem to get relocated, without a huge Police presence, I really want to know who these scum bags are ...... Big believer of Name and Shame!

Not sure about Paulines issues - they seem to divide the Country, more than unite......... mmmmmmm - just because a small minority makes a bad impression - they are NOT all like that! Just look at Christian Brothers Etc .... It is going to be a scarey place with her around :(

Almost like Trump - and I hate to turn on the news and see someone being taken out :( Oh well, if you are radical - you have to expect the same back - not that I would ever, but I feel others might :(

Comes down to what the People of OZ want to see happening in their backyard. People are pissed off with the mamby pamby ways in which society deals with issues including Murder - Drugs - Domestic Violence etc etc and this election says a lot! People seem to be so unsure of who to trust anymore.
 
how is murder and drugs dealt with in a mamby pamby way by society, @hooleydooley?

More so, I was refering to the Higher Powers in our society ....... the rap on the knuckles for young offenders that will continue to do so in adult life. Crime is rampant around here and it seems it is the kids not leaning the lesson early - MAMBY PAMBY Disipline.

There need to be a more creative way to deal with it all. Everyday I read and see on news reports, about the crime happening around here, and the way that disipline is not allowed anymore.

Just for one - Locking prisoners or refugees up - The World needs Trees - A LOT of them. They should be put to work, planting them at least 100 plus per day per prisoner. That is just for starters. Why are these people not put to use in a way that creates infrastructure?

Anyway, that is the world we have these days and I have no answers really. Just my opinion. The world seems so fixated on the $$$$$ and well, I suppose that is what is also creating the greed of Crime and the Drug Culture - as in not coping.

There are so many issues these days that the Government DOES need a wide range of people.[DOUBLEPOST=1467733422][/DOUBLEPOST]
how is murder and drugs dealt with in a mamby pamby way by society, @hooleydooley?

BTW did WB get you to ask me that question?
 
More so, I was refering to the Higher Powers in our society ....... the rap on the knuckles for young offenders that will continue to do so in adult life. Crime is rampant around here and it seems it is the kids not leaning the lesson early - MAMBY PAMBY Disipline.

There need to be a more creative way to deal with it all. Everyday I read and see on news reports, about the crime happening around here, and the way that disipline is not allowed anymore.

Just for one - Locking prisoners or refugees up - The World needs Trees - A LOT of them. They should be put to work, planting them at least 100 plus per day per prisoner. That is just for starters. Why are these people not put to use in a way that creates infrastructure?

Anyway, that is the world we have these days and I have no answers really. Just my opinion. The world seems so fixated on the $$$$$ and well, I suppose that is what is also creating the greed of Crime and the Drug Culture - as in not coping.

There are so many issues these days that the Government DOES need a wide range of people.[DOUBLEPOST=1467733422][/DOUBLEPOST]

BTW did WB get you to ask me that question?

no he did not. that was just my own curiousity.
 
More so, I was refering to the Higher Powers in our society ....... the rap on the knuckles for young offenders that will continue to do so in adult life. Crime is rampant around here and it seems it is the kids not leaning the lesson early - MAMBY PAMBY Disipline.

There need to be a more creative way to deal with it all. Everyday I read and see on news reports, about the crime happening around here, and the way that disipline is not allowed anymore.

Just for one - Locking prisoners or refugees up - The World needs Trees - A LOT of them. They should be put to work, planting them at least 100 plus per day per prisoner. That is just for starters. Why are these people not put to use in a way that creates infrastructure?

Anyway, that is the world we have these days and I have no answers really. Just my opinion. The world seems so fixated on the $$$$$ and well, I suppose that is what is also creating the greed of Crime and the Drug Culture - as in not coping.

There are so many issues these days that the Government DOES need a wide range of people.[DOUBLEPOST=1467733422][/DOUBLEPOST]

BTW did WB get you to ask me that question?

i might be too soft hearted but i believe that the world needs, and that includes young people, more love and understanding. not discipline.

don't people say that in regards into the drugs issue it should be looked at as a medical issue rather than a criminal issue?
 
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i might be too soft hearted but i believe that the world needs, and that includes young people, more love and understanding. not discipline.

don't people say that in regards into the drugs issue it should be looked at as a medical issue rather than a criminal issue?

Yes there needs to be more Love - but I personally think for taking advantage of another for personal gain is learnt at a young age as is crime. There is a need to discipline for not doing what is acceptable for our society.

Do unto others, what you want done to you needs to be taught .........

Anyway, I could rave on but that is off track .........

I do not have the answers - that is for the Government to sort out and what they are paid to do - but in THIS Thread, being about Politics - I am glad that there have been people voted into the Senate (maybe not Pauline) that can chuck their 2 cents worth in to try and work out the problems - instead of just focusing on the $$$$
 
Yes there needs to be more Love - but I personally think for taking advantage of another for personal gain is learnt at a young age as is crime. There is a need to discipline for not doing what is acceptable for our society.

Do unto others, what you want done to you needs to be taught .........

Anyway, I could rave on but that is off track .........

I do not have the answers - that is for the Government to sort out and what they are paid to do - but in THIS Thread, being about Politics - I am glad that there have been people voted into the Senate (maybe not Pauline) that can chuck their 2 cents worth in to try and work out the problems - instead of just focusing on the $$$$

senate does provide a good system of checks and balances like they did with the Abbott government.
 
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