Is Ben a good gay role model?

[Katie]

In some respects Ben's introspection was good for all sexualities. Often homosexuals are self loathing and seeing yourself as you truly are is a tough road to travel. Ben is working towards being who he really is and this win has validated that path. Even at my age there is work to do. Being a role model is not what Ben was about, he did however shine a light on our debate in Australia about minority rights and putting people in a box. Ben's bitchiness was no worse than those on this forum and those I meet in real life. Put together for a reality TV show it seemed over the top but so did the lavender sniffing and the kissing and the batman. All in all watching his journey in the house was an emotional one for me as I deal with the transitioning of my youngest child. I wish all the housemates good luck in dealing with the fallout from their intense exposure.

 

[v-tone]

To get serious for a moment...

True personal growth comes when you take everything you believe to be true, only to learn later it isn't true at all.

By you saying "speaking personally, my respect for gays as a whole has shifted towards the negative after this series of BB, but I will still try and take each individual on merit, as I've done all my life." means that you are basing your judgement of a whole community on one man.

It is the equivalent of hating Aboriginal people because you think Anthony Mundine is a twat, or feeling distrust for Mexicans because you once choked on a taco.

To judge the entire gay community because you don't like Ben is not only ignorant, it is dangerous. For proof, just ask any gay man who has been beaten, in this country, solely because of his sexuality.

OK, well since you're debating reasonably, which was my intention all along...

I wouldn't be judging any community based on one individual if that individual was an isolated case, but with Ben you get the impression that he's fairly typical of a certain type. Hell, I've known gays like that myself. Eye-rollers, gossips, back-stabbers... grrr!

I was being honest and I was being subjective: Ben has had a negative impact on my perception of *certain types* of gays. I'm not going to wage a homophobic vendetta over it, and I still regard the two gay friends I have no differently than I did before. They are good people and far from the stereotype. (In fact I couldn't even persuade either of them to come and see Kylie with me last time she was in Melbourne!)

I have a lot of respect for Anthony Mundine, btw. If he does have a chip on his shoulder, he's entitled to, given the history. But I have less patience for the drunk and abusive aborigines. I'm human.

 

[Tee]

I'm human.

Yes that is true.

Although after reading your post, which indicates you are racist as well as homophobic, demonstrates you are not a very good one.

You can take comfort in the fact ignorance really is bliss.

 

[v-tone]

Yes that is true.

Although after reading your post, which indicates you are racist as well as homophobic, demonstrates you are not a very good one.

You can take comfort in the fact ignorance really is bliss.

I'm not anything ending in -ist or -phobic! You're the one doing the pigeon-holing now.

Let me ask you something... front page of The Age today: story about 15 (yes fifteen!) Catholic Brothers who systematically raped boys over a number of years when they were wards of state in a particular institution. As with so many similar cases, there has been a history of cover-ups by the Catholic establishment.

Doesn't that affect your views of the Catholic Church or Catholic priests in any way? (Two-thirds of all religious based abuse cases are by Catholic clergy.) Or are you SO fucking politically correct and holier-than-thou that you can overlook their shortcomings and see *only* the good in the majority?

 

[Someone]

I think that v-tone is making a valid point, but has expressed it rather stupidly by saying things like “my respect for gays as a whole has shifted towards the negative after this series of BB”. It’s true that there is a certain negative stereotype that one could apply to gay men in general, but you can do exactly the same thing with any other group.

For example, in our society, straight men are more likely to be physically violent, thuggish brutes, whose self esteem depends on their physical strength and ability to look “tough”, and who are obsessed with mind numbingly stupid ways of expressing their masculinity, such as playing violent sports and driving obnoxiously loud cars. I’m a straight man but I do not let the prevalence of these negative stereotypical traits lower my opinion of straight men in general.

 

[v-tone]

I think that v-tone is making a valid point, but has expressed it rather stupidly by saying things like “my respect for gays as a whole has shifted towards the negative after this series of BB”. It’s true that there is a certain negative stereotype that one could apply to gay men in general, but you can do exactly the same thing with any other group.

For example, in our society, straight men are more likely to be physically violent, thuggish brutes, whose self esteem depends on their physical strength and ability to look “tough”, and who are obsessed with mind numbingly stupid ways of expressing their masculinity, such as playing violent sports and driving obnoxiously loud cars. I’m a straight man but I do not let the prevalence of these negative stereotypical traits lower my opinion of straight men in general.

Point taken, but Ben reminded me how obnoxious a certain sub-set of gays can be. But you're right, it was clumsy of me to imply that I held that against *all* gays.

I would argue that I can (and probably do!) feel antipathy towards that sub-set of heteros you describe ('Jocks', as the Yanks call them) too. In fact, the more I think about it, the more groups of people there are that I have no time for! But one on one, I get on with most people.

 

[Cade]

Benjamin has a fulltime job, he is National Account Manager for a major company.

wasn't his 'secret' that he'd been fired from EVERY job he'd ever had??

 

[Kaz]

I must be the only a handful of viewers that didn't take Ben's sexuality into account.

I didn't even think when he was being shown that he was gay.

I just saw a HM being themselves, sexual preference didn't come into it.

Ben didn't go into the house to be a gay role model, I think it was the opposite.

He wanted to be accepted as himself & not the gay HM.

 

[Cade]

Point taken, but Ben reminded me how obnoxious a certain sub-set of gays can be. But you're right, it was clumsy of me to imply that I held that against *all* gays.QUOTE]

I'm gay and I hated Ben, so did two gays who work at my office. It's a great shame if you let it make you think any less of gays in general. You said you have two gay friends and your opinion of them hasn't changed at all which is wonderful, so with that you should just forget about Ben and 'that' type of gay. Because those type of people exist everywhere, and they're gay AND straight. I've met some straight people in office environments who were downright vicious!!

 

[Kaz]

wasn't his 'secret' that he'd been fired from EVERY job he'd ever had??

Yes, but you will find out he was 'sacked' when he was suffering depression over his father's death.

Both Ben's work at Scoopon.

 

[willowthewisp]

Why does he need to be a role model - gay or otherwise?

 

[miss]

I must be the only a handful of viewers that didn't take Ben's sexuality into account.

I didn't even think when he was being shown that he was gay.

I just saw a HM being themselves, sexual preference didn't come into it.

Ben didn't go into the house to be a gay role model, I think it was the opposite.

He wanted to be accepted as himself & not the gay HM.

I'm glad to see you say this, I've never taken Ben's sexuality into account either.

My two gay male workmates couldn't stand Ben. They thought him patronising and annoying with his Dr Phil advice. Don't think they took his sexuality into account, either.

 

[v-tone]

Why does he need to be a role model - gay or otherwise?

Read the rest of this thread (and others). That question has been addressed ad nauseam. Not that I'm saying there's any definitive answer to it.

 

[v-tone]

I'm gay and I hated Ben, so did two gays who work at my office. It's a great shame if you let it make you think any less of gays in general. You said you have two gay friends and your opinion of them hasn't changed at all which is wonderful, so with that you should just forget about Ben and 'that' type of gay. Because those type of people exist everywhere, and they're gay AND straight. I've met some straight people in office environments who were downright vicious!!

Fair enough. Had I heard from you earlier, I might not have jumped to the conclusions I did!

 

[willowthewisp]

Read the rest of this thread (and others). That question has been addressed ad nauseam. Not that I'm saying there's any definitive answer to it.

ad nauseam hey? Tell me does the v in v-tone stand for vulgar?

 

[Cade]

Yes, but you will find out he was 'sacked' when he was suffering depression over his father's death.

Both Ben's work at Scoopon.

Well what the hell is he doing telling us he got fired from every job he's ever had then???

 

[Kaz]

Well what the hell is he doing telling us he got fired from every job he's ever had then???

The producers etc came up with that shit.

Layla was 'related' to Royalty, George is a multi-millionaire (only on paper & if his plan works)

 

[Tee]

I'm not anything ending in -ist or -phobic! You're the one doing the pigeon-holing now.

Let me ask you something... front page of The Age today: story about 15 (yes fifteen!) Catholic Brothers who systematically raped boys over a number of years when they were wards of state in a particular institution. As with so many similar cases, there has been a history of cover-ups by the Catholic establishment.

Doesn't that affect your views of the Catholic Church or Catholic priests in any way? (Two-thirds of all religious based abuse cases are by Catholic clergy.) Or are you SO fucking politically correct and holier-than-thou that you can overlook their shortcomings and see *only* the good in the majority?

Are you serious?!

Of course I am not going to condemn the Catholic Church in its entirety based on the actions of evil paedophiles that used the church as a front to gain access to children for the sole purpose to torture and abuse them. That would make as much sense as judging the entire gay community based on one gay man who featured spasmodically in a reality TV show.

Nek minnut (next minute) you will be telling me all Islamic people are terrorists because there was an article on the Taliban on page 4 of your newspaper…

This may come as a shock to you, but the majority of people are good! The majority of gay people, the majority of Catholic people, the majority of Aboriginal people, the majority of Islamic people are good. It concerns me when people like you make a minority the majority, just to justify your own hatred, ignorance and personal prejudices.

There is a forum saying, you can lead the ignorant to a plausible explanation, but sadly you can’t make them think.

 

[Tee]

I think that v-tone is making a valid point, but has expressed it rather stupidly by saying things like “my respect for gays as a whole has shifted towards the negative after this series of BB”. It’s true that there is a certain negative stereotype that one could apply to gay men in general, but you can do exactly the same thing with any other group.

For example, in our society, straight men are more likely to be physically violent, thuggish brutes, whose self esteem depends on their physical strength and ability to look “tough”, and who are obsessed with mind numbingly stupid ways of expressing their masculinity, such as playing violent sports and driving obnoxiously loud cars. I’m a straight man but I do not let the prevalence of these negative stereotypical traits lower my opinion of straight men in general.

What rubbish. Thugs are likely to be more physically violent and thuggish brutes, not everyday men.

I love straight men. I go to bed with one every night, I am raising one and I have two for brothers and also I work in amongst a whole gaggle of them, and they all come in various colours, races and creeds (except for the one I shag, the one I birthed and the two I am related to, they are all boringly white bread), and I have never read such a pile of inaccurate generalisations regarding the male species in my life. Given that you are a man, I am surprised and saddened you have such a low opinion of your own sex.

 

[Tee]

Fair enough. Had I heard from you earlier, I might not have jumped to the conclusions I did!

Oh my God!

Ha!

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Makes sense, given that all it took was one negative experience featuring a gay man on a reality TV show for you to turn on the gay community, that it would take only one faceless gay forum member to voice their opposing opinion, to your flawed argument, to have you backflip back the other way again.

Now all we need is to hear from a Mick, an Aboriginal, a Jew and an Islamic and all will be well in the world.