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Survivor Koah Rong: BrainsvBrawnvBeauty 2

Unbelievable they didn't dump the heatstrokes in the sea to cool body temperature. Standard treatment is an ice bath.

Poor Alecia. I don't find her nearly as annoying as either man on her sucky tribe.

Can't even say 'I tried' without getting picked on. Ridiculous.

They really had an irrational hatred of her. I think they both need to have a long period of therapy to work out what the hell that was about.
 
I checked out Scot's NBA career. 11 seasons is a good amount of time to be collecting NBA type money, but he's a journeyman non-starter who averaged 16 minutes of court time and 4.4 points on a not great FG%. It's neither great or terrible, just a player paid to be 6'11 rather than for shooting the basketball into the hoop or anything. He would be rich from it, but Alecia's whatever attitude is justified. First round draft pick is impressive....those numbers for a first round draft pick are disappointing.
 
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Unbelievable they didn't dump the heatstrokes in the sea to cool body temperature. Standard treatment is an ice bath.

Cambodian sea temps aren't cold enough - current water temp is 28c. That wouldn't be enough to bring the body temp down.

Edit: that's with a current air temp of 29c. I read somewhere that on the day of the challenge it was 117F (47c). No way they could've accounted for those temperatures when they planned out the challenge.
 
Cambodian sea temps aren't cold enough - current water temp is 28c. That wouldn't be enough to bring the body temp down.

Edit: that's with a current air temp of 29c. I read somewhere that on the day of the challenge it was 117F (47c). No way they could've accounted for those temperatures when they planned out the challenge.
The standard body temperature is 37 degrees. Caleb's monitor seemed to show 42+ at one stage, which is mega. Even if the water was 38 degrees it would still be a good move to immerse him in it to reduce the dangerous core temperature he was hitting.
 
That's what happens boys when you get cute with the first vote. Vote out J'Tia, vote out Abi Maria, vote out the skinny annoying girl on the Brawn tribe, or you lose challenges, you lose the rice, you get turned on and annoyed.

I guess Jason said he thought Russell was the only one to have ever played correctly, so maybe he thought he was being clever, keeping a Natalie White around. But he couldn't control her vote any more than he could control his temper.

Pretty over the top presentation of Caleb this season. Getting a heroic edit from episode one, trusted by all, loved by the most lovable guy out there, always shown 'beastmoding' challenges, he even got a little epitaph in loving memory of BMC. Jeff loves his alpha males. Or maybe it was an attempt to defuse the bullying issue.

Goose should not have been exerting himself like that in 47 degrees tropical heat, when undernourished and dehydrated, for salt and bloody pepper. Those zero body fat types have a hard time adjusting - as we saw, bodybuilder Cydney and professional scarecrow Debbie both collapsed too.

For me it was a boring episode. All human drama, no strategy. I suppose they needed to build Caleb up so that they had something to show tonight - otherwise it'd be 'some guy got hot and went home' as opposed to The Most Gruelling Season of Survivor Ever.

Looking at the cast, who can win? On beauty, Nick can't, Julie is pretty invisible, and Michelle has faded since a great first episode. Tai is going to win hearts, but I don't think it's a winner's edit. Anna, maybe. If she won it would explain why Probst is down on the season. He loves the Mikes to win.

Joe can't win. Nor Peter. Ice Cream Pants is a maybe, and Debbie is a possiblity. Aubrey is doubtful. Scot I don't see, but Jason, maybe. He was not as condemned as he could have been for his treatment of Alecia, especially for knocking her out of the way into rocks (according to an exit interview). He is repeated shown talking about his girls - even justifying himself for bullying Alecia in a way ' I teach MY girls to be strong.' If he doesn't go far, I don't get why he isn't shown as being just a bully to rootable Alecia.

I stand by my word choice.

Overall, it's been a good season so far. Brawn were punished for voting out Darnell and whatsername, but those three are probably a strong three now, and it could be a Matsing situation, where they have been forged in the fire of defeat, as iron sharpens iron etc. I guess the girls of beauty and Tai are probably tight, and the two two person voting units on Brains could well be a foursome. So, that's one 4 person block on Beauty, a potential other on Brains, but more likely two twos, and one three person alliance on Brawn, with Nick and Peter on their own. They may bro down, in the most narcissistic alliance since Eddie and Reynold.

Next, we will have one 6 person tribe and one of 7. Nick and Peter may be safe because their muscle could be needed, but I can't see them getting very far after the merge.

My heart says Neal for the win for some reason - I just like him. My brain says... sugar, Debbie. I'd prefer Anna, though. Surely not Jason?
 
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It's easy to say with hindsight the challenge should have been suspended, abandoned or never taken place in the first place but I'll give the benefit of the doubt for that.

What was disconcerting was that Jeff appeared to be more preoccupied with the casualties place in the game rather than their lives. There was no need at all for his speech to Caleb and it wasn't in his interest at all to have further bad news given to him as he was literally grasping for life. The news could have been given to him at the hospital once he was in a fit state to understand it, and indeed surely they should have waited to see how serious it was before ruling him out completely. If he had been deemed fit enough to return within 24 hours or so it would have been fair to give him the option considering they put him in hospital in the first place.

Other than that watching this blind (Survivor doesn't air in the UK and it's a long time since I watched anything more than the odd short clip of it) Jeff really does seem like a parody of a bad reality show host, and at Tribal Council he seems to be phoning it in rather than building the moment. Yes, the outcome might have been inevitable this week but at least make it seem like you want to be there.
 
The standard body temperature is 37 degrees. Caleb's monitor seemed to show 42+ at one stage, which is mega. Even if the water was 38 degrees it would still be a good move to immerse him in it to reduce the dangerous core temperature he was hitting.

At that stage it's not enough; they need rapid cooling, even if it risks shock. Plus, putting him in the ocean in the delirious state he was in would possibly have put him at risk of drowning; and would have been burning precious time - particularly if they had to remove him to conduct defibrillation.

I get the idea though. Also I think you may be slightly mistaken - dumping a heat stroke patient in ice is liable to put the body into shock due to extreme temperature change - which would have made Caleb's state even more life-threatening.
 
At that stage it's not enough; they need rapid cooling, even if it risks shock. Plus, putting him in the ocean in the delirious state he was in would possibly have put him at risk of drowning; and would have been burning precious time - particularly if they had to remove him to conduct defibrillation.

I get the idea though. Also I think you may be slightly mistaken - dumping a heat stroke patient in ice is liable to put the body into shock due to extreme temperature change - which would have made Caleb's state even more life-threatening.
Politely, no. Organs risk damage from the elevated temperature. The shock of it is a first world problem compared to actual damage of cooked organs.

"Immersion in an ice-water bath is the best way to treat athletes suffering exertional heat stroke say the authors of a 2009 study in the Journal of Athletic Training and according to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Ice-water or cold-water immersion is best for treating athletes suffering hyperthermia caused by physical exertion or exertional heat stroke (EHS) and should be the "definitive treatment," according to a report I co-authored which appeared in the February 2009 issue of the Journal of Athletic Training. EHS has had a 100% survival rate when immediate cooling via cold water immersion or aggressive whole body cold water dousing is started within 10 minutes of collapse.
Ice_tub.jpg

When ice-water or cold-water immersion are not feasible, the National Association of Athletic Trainers (NATA) says immediate and continual dousing of the patient with water (either from a hose or multiple water containers) combined with fanning and continually rotating cold, wet towels represents a viable on-site alternative until immersive cooling can occur.

"To prevent possible serious consequences or fatalities, athletic trainers are called on to assess, and appropriately care for, individuals who are experiencing heat illnesses," said Brendon McDermott, MS, ATC, instructor, athletic training education program, University of Connecticut, and lead author of the article. "Our review of treatment options helps ensure athletic trainers and other health care professionals understand the most effective methods to care for people who become overheated as they exercise."

The most serious heat-related illness is exertional heat stroke (EHS), which is a condition marked by an elevated core body temperature (≥ 104°F or 40°C) and central nervous system dysfunction.

The next most serious illness, exertional heat exhaustion, is diagnosed when an individual exhibits a moderately elevated core body temperature (generally less than 104°F or 40°C) and is unable to continue exercising. Exertional heat stroke can develop if heat exhaustion is managed improperly; however, heat exhaustion does not necessarily precipitate EHS.

Practical recommendations
Based on the available research, the authors made the following practical recommendations:

  • Cooling first and transport second should be the rule, first and foremost.
  • Include cold-water immersion, if possible, when setting up a plan for treating exertional heat stroke.
  • Ice in coolers adjacent to tubs filled with water should be available for rapid cooling of athletes suffering from EHS.
  • In areas where cold-water tubs are impractical, athletic trainers should plan to have a cooler available containing ice, water and towels.
  • The cold, wet towels should be changed every two to three minutes as a means of reducing body temperature.
  • Alternatively, a large water supply should be available for the continual dousing of a patient (either from a hose or multiple water containers).
  • In extreme cases, when individuals may complete training runs at remote locations and EHS is suspected, cooling should be implemented as soon as possible using a water source of some sort (e.g., garden hose, stream, lake, pond).
"The longer a person's body remains above a critical temperature, the more chance there is that serious injury or death can occur," McDermott said. "As our research suggests, patients should always be cooled first at the scene, before being transported to a hospital, clinic or emergency room."


AAP endorsement
In a 2011 Policy Statement,1 the American Academy of Pediatrics identifies the use of cold- or ice-water immersion as the "preferred, most effective method" for prompt, on-site, whole body rapid cooling, and, if unavailable, employing the other, less effective treatment options listed above.
 
Just caught up.

I highly doubt the temperature was as high as 47C that day. They would surely have cancelled the challenge, or changed it, if that was the case. Something like 43C and still going ahead with the challenge, that I can imagine.

Also, yeah, the ocean water is warm in the SE Asia region. I'm sure if it was a good idea to dunk them in there, the medics would have gone for it.

I would have liked to see more of the bromance between Caleb and Tai, but them's the breaks.
 
I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629045/

So that's the shock argument shot down. The science is on my side. The feel good factor of groupthink fan waving offers inclusive involvement while back in reality the victim's organs begin failure.

The medical treatment given on the show was flustered and disorganised. They had machines that go ping, but no plan other than shade and fanning and a drink bottle. The reason there is explicit advice on the best treatment is that casualty doctors receive patients with organ failure who would have been better off being cooled in place than rushed in panic before treating the heat problem. As witnessed above, the mistaken gut belief that an already semi-comatose would go into shock is common and detrimental to the victim.

If Caleb's teammates had assisted him into the sea back in his conscious days, his organs would be better off. If they had used the best resource available to cool his body temperature once he was non responsive, he would have been better off. Sorry, but it's a fact. Groupthink is rarely the best treatment.
 
I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629045/

They had machines that go ping, but no plan other than shade and fanning and a drink bottle.

From your own link:

"When ice-water immersion is not possible, continual dousing with water combined with fanning the patient is an alternative method until more advanced cooling means can be used."

Warm water != ice water immersion. Therefore, according to your link, the medical team did the right thing.
 
From your own link:

"When ice-water immersion is not possible, continual dousing with water combined with fanning the patient is an alternative method until more advanced cooling means can be used."

Warm water != ice water immersion. Therefore, according to your link, the medical team did the right thing.
You've conveniently omitted or forgotten the air temperature was significantly hotter than the sea. :p

Trying to cool a 43C and rising patient by fannning with, by your admission, 43C+ ambient air is relying on evaporation only, while heat transfer exarcerbates the problem the other way. Given his temperature was rising on the monitor, what is your basis that fanning hot ambient air helped his temperature at all? It went up until medevac.

Try thawing a frozen chicken with 100c convected air versus separately maintained immersion in 10C water and see which thaws the core first. Try boiling an egg with 100C air only and discover that it takes far longer than water would take. It's called heat transfer, it's basic first year physics and water is far, far better than air at transferring heat. If your organs are cooking from the inside, you want heat transferred away more than even attending hospital. The recommended treatment even addresses that the first instinct of rushing for the ambulance is secondary to reducing the temperature in situ. It's about reducing organ damage.

Putting a 43C heatsroke victim in 30C water will cool their core temperature faster than fanning them with 43c air. Fact.
 
Politely, no. Organs risk damage from the elevated temperature. The shock of it is a first world problem compared to actual damage of cooked organs.

I stand corrected. My apologies.
I got confused because I was always told during LSV training that you should never immerse a hypothermic in hot water because it sends the body into shock and screws up the blood pressure / heartbeat of a patient. I must've just assumed that it went both ways and that you don't want to dump a hyperthermic in ice water for similar reasons.
 
I think Tai made the wrong decision tonight. We shall see.
It didn't look like Tai and the Beauty girls had any real alliance. (Tai seems to bond with big strong men better than he does with girls.) If the 5 beauties were all tight, then I would agree with you, or if instead of just the swap, this was the final 6. I don't think that having Julie sweep back in and joining the ranks especially helps his game if he's not strongly aligned with those three, and he loses his idol.
 
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