Connoisseur
Well-Known Member
To each their own. I rather be in the company of those guys than be in the same room with ben 12 any day of the week. Don't mistake your own biased opinion for fact, that's all I ask.
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Most universally liked and disliked BB HMs
- Thread starter APABLD
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To each their own. I rather be in the company of those guys than be in the same room with ben 12 any day of the week. Don't mistake your own biased opinion for fact, that's all I ask.
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Auxin
Guest
You weren't responding to what I said, but I liked Ben too. Obviously some of the behaviour he displayed could be considered 'disgusting', but everyone has their flaws (I'm not justifying what he said/did) and he also happened to be very likeable in another sense.
It was emphasized by Gretel in particular that we should 'vote for the house we want to watch, not the one we wish to live in', and that's exactly the way in which I formed my opinion of each individual. I did care that Ben mistreated (bullied is a harsh word) others in the house, but that didn't cause me to completely resent him, rather it balanced out my opinion to have him as say, my 3rd-4th favourite housemate of 2012. There were plenty of housemates in that series whom were without a doubt 'more kind' (lack of better terms) than he was, but they were all voted out (as one would expect), due to a lack of the entertaining qualities that Ben possessed.
I can understand that you didn't like him, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong to have enjoyed his character. The picture shown was one of my favourite moments of that series as well. The fact that he won doesn't just suggest, but it shows that he was popular. Previously presented in this thread was an analogy involving Tony Abbott and his election win, despite hatred towards him. Big Brother is largely about contestant popularity, while Tony Abbott is involved in politics, an entirely different matter.
Connoisseur
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but the callousness he dished out to housemates he deemed unworthy trumps any so-called entertainment value he provided. To me he was neither funny or interesting anyway, he was just a social bully/psychopath who got off the power he had among his little equally nasty dumb minions in ostracizing people he hated/disliked for whatever reason.
The only thing he had going for him was the fact he was gay and many lefties felt this was their opportunity to make 'history' or whatever it was they thought him winning was doing. Strip away his homosexuality from him and I'm sure his fans wouldn't excuse/overlook his disgraceful mean spirited behaviour like they would any other run of the mill straight male.
The only thing he had going for him was the fact he was gay and many lefties felt this was their opportunity to make 'history' or whatever it was they thought him winning was doing. Strip away his homosexuality from him and I'm sure his fans wouldn't excuse/overlook his disgraceful mean spirited behaviour like they would any other run of the mill straight male.
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Auxin
Guest
This isn't a fact, this is your opinion, highlighted by your view below:
You can view him however you like, but the fact remains that he was popular. He cannot be the most universally hated housemate if he won the series unless every vote he received was from biased sources (such as family), and that obviously wasn't the case. The people who voted for him would not have thought as you do, and they aren't in the wrong for that.
You adopt a very simplistic view. His homosexuality made him who he was, and so stripping that away from him would take away the majority of his character. It's as if you're saying that if Tim (who by some is viewed the same way you view Ben) was not intelligent, fans would not have voted for him, which makes no sense as his whole persona would be completely different without his intellect.
Gays are a minority group, and if making history was really important to your so called 'lefties', why would they choose someone whom you describe to be psychotic to do so? You're deluding yourself in thinking that all his votes were for such reasons.
Connoisseur
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is that lefties (the extreme kind) sorta turn a blind to the bitchiness of a gay male because that's what expected of them, they downplay/trivilaise it you could say. But the nastiness of this particular gay male was off the charts, so much so that it was beyond the pale. And it reflected badly on the idiots who wanted to reward him for merely being gay and wanting to make history for a political cause. I never claimed that lefties were smart and I'm certain that ben 12 winning set back the gay cause rather than move it forward as they would've hoped.
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Auxin
Guest
If the only possible reason you can think of for people liking him is that they are stupid extremist lefties and overlook his nastiness as a result, then I'm confused, considering this is what you wrote earlier:
This thread is about the most universally hated housemate, yet Ben won 2012 and has supporters even from this very thread. In this thread, the only reasons people give for his popularity are inaccurate assumptions of how/what the supporters think. Why must there be something 'wrong' with people that liked him, rather than acceptance that people did like him and that he isn't the most universally hated?
I still don't know why Ben won Big Brother 2012.
I really hate that series. It just makes me feel so sad the way the majority of the housemates treated Estelle. It was not good viewing at all. I prefer to forget that series ever existed but it's hard because it's the first series when the show came back from cancellation.
Reasons Ben won:
* casual viewers voting: some missed the moments when Ben was really nasty or explained his behaviour off with "a bad day". If you watched every episode like I did then you would have saw the bad behaviour (like excluding Estelle and manipulating other HMs - Michael and Stacey did this too) happened all the time.
* Some people thought he was actually entertaining. Sure I could see the funny side of Ben sometimes (got over it week 3 though) but his bad behaviour outweighed all his good. Why should we reward someone who was basically a bully?
* because Australia wanted a gay person to win. I am gay myself so don't call me a homophobe. I can see that some people would only have voted Ben for this reason.
* Estelle haters voted Ben. Some people actually thought the nastiness and exclusion was justified. Also the BB team revealed what the current voting graph looked liked on the Monday night final eviction and Estelle was winning with a big landslide if I recall correctly? Layla and Ben fans would have upped their voting while Estelle fans thought she was safe for the win.
* Michael hooking up with Estelle cost him the prize because viewers saw he was a hypocrite after continually saying bad things about her. Michael would not have been a worthy winner at all either. Nor would Layla, she was very nasty at times too but I would have preferred her to won in that final 3 if Estelle did not.
* his family voted many times. It's not exactly unheard of: I remember the Logan twins were rumoured of getting a loan so they could vote Greg win...
What do YOU think?
Just because he won doesn't mean he's a universally loved HM. People also hated Jamie and Terri winning.
I just pray we never get a series like Big Brother 2012 ever again. I hope we never have a nasty group of housemates like that again and I hope Australia have sense not to reward bad behaviour ever again.
I really hate that series. It just makes me feel so sad the way the majority of the housemates treated Estelle. It was not good viewing at all. I prefer to forget that series ever existed but it's hard because it's the first series when the show came back from cancellation.
Reasons Ben won:
* casual viewers voting: some missed the moments when Ben was really nasty or explained his behaviour off with "a bad day". If you watched every episode like I did then you would have saw the bad behaviour (like excluding Estelle and manipulating other HMs - Michael and Stacey did this too) happened all the time.
* Some people thought he was actually entertaining. Sure I could see the funny side of Ben sometimes (got over it week 3 though) but his bad behaviour outweighed all his good. Why should we reward someone who was basically a bully?
* because Australia wanted a gay person to win. I am gay myself so don't call me a homophobe. I can see that some people would only have voted Ben for this reason.
* Estelle haters voted Ben. Some people actually thought the nastiness and exclusion was justified. Also the BB team revealed what the current voting graph looked liked on the Monday night final eviction and Estelle was winning with a big landslide if I recall correctly? Layla and Ben fans would have upped their voting while Estelle fans thought she was safe for the win.
* Michael hooking up with Estelle cost him the prize because viewers saw he was a hypocrite after continually saying bad things about her. Michael would not have been a worthy winner at all either. Nor would Layla, she was very nasty at times too but I would have preferred her to won in that final 3 if Estelle did not.
* his family voted many times. It's not exactly unheard of: I remember the Logan twins were rumoured of getting a loan so they could vote Greg win...
What do YOU think?
Just because he won doesn't mean he's a universally loved HM. People also hated Jamie and Terri winning.
I just pray we never get a series like Big Brother 2012 ever again. I hope we never have a nasty group of housemates like that again and I hope Australia have sense not to reward bad behaviour ever again.
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Connoisseur
Well-Known Member
Also a large part of the reason ben 12 won was because he strategically got rid of the housemates he wasn't 'fond' of which was a decisive masterstroke and pivotal to him winning. As the numbers dwindled via eviction, you had evictees who would come out and express disgust and shock that Estelle had any fans at all.
These miscreant underlings of ben then rallied all their fan bases together to get behind ben, which proved to much for the fan base of just 1 housemate. You also have to remember that Estelle was up for eviction almost every week, something that undoubtedly exhausted the pockets of her fans unlike ben who rarely was up besides the first weeks of the show. All these things combined led to ben winning and even then he still needed the f*ckwit producers intervention to rig it for him by revealing that Estelle was in front in the vote count, inevitably causing an avalanche of votes in his favour.
This is somewhat reminiscent to what happened to Tahan vs jade, Tahan's fan just couldn't match the amount of money jade fans had saved during the course of the show because jade was seldom up for eviction.
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Auxin
Guest
You involve a lot of empathy in the show, or perhaps you just are more empathetic/sympathetic in general than I am. I absolutely don't condone how Estelle was treated, but in terms of TV value, I didn't enjoy her as much as Ben, and that's just how it is.
Yeah, that is highly possible. I watched every episode, most of them on TV and then online later that night, of if I missed one on TV, online only.
I view this as a perfectly fine opinion to have. It is true, that if you think about it, you should not reward someone for such bad behaviour. It actually had me on edge during 2012 (no lie), but ultimately I decided he was still relatively entertaining. I would not have watched the show if it was made up of 16 Estelles. 16 Charnes would have been interesting to see, though probably obnoxious after a few weeks.
To be honest, I don't think this reason really has much value. Sure, he is gay, but Tim from 05 and Tim from 13 were highly intelligent, and that's why people voted for them. Aleisha was a carefree teenage (or 20, can't remember) girl, and that's why people voted for her. I suppose there would be people out there who just for the sake of him being labelled 'gay' would have voted for him, but surely not that many. I accept that I may be ignorant in that regard though, I have no evidence at all to suggest that you're incorrect, only assumptions.
I didn't hate Estelle, but I didn't find her as enjoyable to watch, holistically, as I did Ben. The nastiness etc isn't justifiable, anyone that would think so is definitely misguided.
Well, if his family voted (a small family), then it is more than likely Layla's family voted more. I can't exactly remember Estelle's situation, so I'm not going to comment on her family to not risk inaccuracy.
He wasn't universally loved, most definitely not. He wasn't universally hated either, though.
Fair enough.
Connoisseur
Well-Known Member
I didn't find Estelle particularly interesting either but that is no excuse to reward/encourage someone as repugnant as ben 12 for picking on people he disliked, mocking them incessantly behind their backs, and ultimately successfully alienating them from the social group Estelle was stuck with in the house.
Whether you want to admit it or not, ben had a lot of influence over that group and he was the main instigator in turning his minions against her with the amount of venom they did. It was so unnecessary and without reason, what made it worse (and frightening) was the fact that the guy seemed to get off the pain he caused Estelle. *yuck*
To be honest it's alarming to me that there are many people out there in Australia that saw nothing (or little) wrong in how ben carried himself in the house against people he dismissed as 'meepers' and unworthy of being in his presence.
No wonder there are many individuals who take their lives at school/workplace when apparently nobody wises up to the obvious signs of bulling leading up to it. It seriously scares the hell out of me.
Whether you want to admit it or not, ben had a lot of influence over that group and he was the main instigator in turning his minions against her with the amount of venom they did. It was so unnecessary and without reason, what made it worse (and frightening) was the fact that the guy seemed to get off the pain he caused Estelle. *yuck*
To be honest it's alarming to me that there are many people out there in Australia that saw nothing (or little) wrong in how ben carried himself in the house against people he dismissed as 'meepers' and unworthy of being in his presence.
No wonder there are many individuals who take their lives at school/workplace when apparently nobody wises up to the obvious signs of bulling leading up to it. It seriously scares the hell out of me.
^love that whole post @Connoisseur
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Auxin
Guest
There is no excuse to reward Ben for that behaviour, but those who voted for Ben to win (the majority) would not have done so because of the behaviour you refer to. From my perspective, that's analogous to those who back in the day wanted Big Brother off the air for the uncut shows; the haters were essentially solely disgusted by the uncensored content and used that as justification to argue for cancellation of the whole show, rather than just accept the uncensored content for what it is and/or ignore it.
Ben was up against only Estelle and Layla for the final, and personally I wanted neither to win more than Ben. Estelle bored me throughout the whole show, and that was a huge factor in making my decision. Layla was more entertaining to me than Estelle was, but I still didn't find her character too interesting. As an example, she hooked up with someone whom I thought was the most boring intruder ever outside of Ava (Sam).
Ultimately, the nastiness of Ben did affect how I viewed him, hence why he wasn't my favourite, but around my 3rd-4th as I previously posted. It just so happens that Estelle and Layla, I liked even less - strictly in terms of TV, in real life, probably different.
Yes, he did heavily influence the group. It's not something I need to 'admit', as I watched every episode of the series and explained why I don't think he's the most universally hated housemate. I don't need to argue for, nor against his behaviour. He's just not the most universally hated. Perhaps he could be one of the most controversial, but that's a different matter.
Refer to above for my thoughts on this - him winning doesn't mean that Australia saw little/nothing wrong with it.
As for the 'meepers' thing, I wouldn't take that too seriously. It is a projection of reality; everybody has people that annoy them, whom they wish would just shut up and leave them alone. Ben verbalized how he felt about such people, perhaps too harshly/immaturely, yes, but nothing absolutely devastating.
What about Ben's behaviour would cause suicide? I can definitely see how it is negative, but surely the blame can't be placed solely upon him. If the other housemates reciprocated the behaviour, it is just as much their fault as it is his. It's more the pack mentality that can go along with such behaviour, that is harmful, in my opinion.
I'm assuming that if you were in the house, you would have stood up for Estelle, and taken a stand against not only Ben, but everybody who had contributed to the bullying.
Shackles
The pen is mightier than the sword.
Excuse me? Since when did I say that my opinion was 'fact'? Sure, I was vocal about it but I never stated that everyone should share my opinion. :/
At the time, both Sara-Marie and Regina were hugely well-received by majority of people.
I do honestly believe Reggie stands out as, by general opinion, the most "universally liked" of all-time though.
I do honestly believe Reggie stands out as, by general opinion, the most "universally liked" of all-time though.
paranvoi
Secret agent of the Stellahood
Honestly I think it's solely down to the producers revealing the vote percentages with faces a couple evenings before the finale. Ben won not because he had more fans than Estelle, but because Estelle had an immense amount of haters on the outside who voted like mad for the other 2 finalists not because they wanted them to win, but because they wanted Estelle NOT to win. Even on this forum people put in their signatures e.g. "ABE - Anyone But Estelle" etc. It also explains boring fauxmance Layla coming 2nd - there is absolutely no way she had more fans than Estelle, no WAY, she got a surge of votes as a way of evicting Estelle. Ben getting 11% more of the vote to win than Estelle just gives an idea what kind of figures Estelle would have been voted out to if the series had been vote-to-evict.
I don't know if Estelle would have won had the percentages not been prematurely revealed to viewers, but Layla would definitely have come 3rd.
And for the record, I don't know if the producers necessarily wanted Ben to beat Estelle, I think they revealed the percentages because they wanted Michael in the final. The plan backfired though.
Inigo Montoya
The New Dread Pirate Roberts.
I think the main reason people dislike Terri is because the was a few incidents of rigging to help her win.
Inigo Montoya
The New Dread Pirate Roberts.
*there
