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Do we have a politics thread to discuss things political?

Affable

Well-Known Member
Very interesting article, especially the part that says 'Voters traditionally kick governments out. They don’t elect oppositions'.

I believe this to be very true. Albanese won't win the next election, but rather Morrison will lose (should that be how it plays out). Interesting to see Albo ahead as preferred PM. I think that just shows Aussie's are well and truly fed up with Scomo's incompetence and inability to actually do anything.


I believe the preferred PM one is the other way around. Same poll (NewsPoll) was shown on Paul Murray Sunday night and Morrison was still in the lead comfortably but losing a little bit of traction.

Also backed up by this article which says Morrison went from 58% to 54%.

 

rj90

Yeah, Nah.
I believe the preferred PM one is the other way around. Same poll (NewsPoll) was shown on Paul Murray Sunday night and Morrison was still in the lead comfortably but losing a little bit of traction.

Also backed up by this article which says Morrison went from 58% to 54%.

Yep, looks like you're right.


Fucking news.com.au - that'll teach me haha
 

Drama

♥️
It's just self-entitled bullshit. Your cousins should be open and admit they want the pandemic to run free, cost tens of thousands of old and fat peoples lives rather than be inconvenienced.
I think you have a very absolutist interpretation. The point is to keep case numbers low enough so that it doesn't cause major disruption to society. Victoria doesn't have the balance right. I can understand why people would be pissed off.

People also still make excuses for Victoria. Population, immigrants, diversity, multiculturalism, density in Melbourne. Those sort of excuses. NSW has all of those things in Sydney without anywhere near the number of issues with keeping the virus under control. There are too many issues in Victoria now for this to be a coincidence or bad luck. There's something that's not working there.
 

Columbo

Somehow I Still Believe
I think you have a very absolutist interpretation. The point is to keep case numbers low enough so that it doesn't cause major disruption to society. Victoria doesn't have the balance right. I can understand why people would be pissed off.

People also still make excuses for Victoria. Population, immigrants, diversity, multiculturalism, density in Melbourne. Those sort of excuses. NSW has all of those things in Sydney without anywhere near the number of issues with keeping the virus under control. There are too many issues in Victoria now for this to be a coincidence or bad luck. There's something that's not working there.

Yeah fucking dumb idiots are pissed off lol.
 

up_all_night

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
I think you have a very absolutist interpretation. The point is to keep case numbers low enough so that it doesn't cause major disruption to society. Victoria doesn't have the balance right. I can understand why people would be pissed off.
Exponential growth. This literally isn't something you can risk circulating in low levels. Look at what happened in Taiwan. You can not get lax with this. This has been shown time and time again all over the world. Unfortunately, our shitty news doesn't really report what has been going on globally. So people are uninformed.

The potential exposure sites were all over Melbourne.


People also still make excuses for Victoria. Population, immigrants, diversity, multiculturalism, density in Melbourne. Those sort of excuses. NSW has all of those things in Sydney without anywhere near the number of issues with keeping the virus under control. There are too many issues in Victoria now for this to be a coincidence or bad luck. There's something that's not working there.

Yet literally no one can pinpoint or explain why it has gone wrong more often. Maybe it's just a feature that can't be explained? Maybe it's all just bad luck?

The point is, no other states have had to deal with the same and as frequent issues. Why Victoria is worse, I don't know. No one does. No one can conclude something is done worse. What I do know is the Federal Government passing the buck of proper quarantine is to blame. That is not a state responsibility. It's the Federal Governments failure and Victoria is suffering because of it.

Also, in all honesty, do you really think if immigrants, where returned travellers were coming from, cultural practices etc were linked to the spread. Do you think they'd tell us? They didn't with the outbreak that caused the second wave. I don't know if this is the case, what I do think is certain is they would not tell us if it was.

Fun question if anyone knows the answer. I don't. Why with travel bans was the person who caught the virus in SA quarantine allowed to travel back and forth from overseas 3 times during the pandemic. WTF is that about? Isn't travel banned? Why am I constantly hearing stories of peoples struggles? Yet for some, no issues.
 

Affable

Well-Known Member
Exponential growth. This literally isn't something you can risk circulating in low levels. Look at what happened in Taiwan. You can not get lax with this. This has been shown time and time again all over the world. Unfortunately, our shitty news doesn't really report what has been going on globally. So people are uninformed.

The potential exposure sites were all over Melbourne.




Yet literally no one can pinpoint or explain why it has gone wrong more often. Maybe it's just a feature that can't be explained? Maybe it's all just bad luck?

The point is, no other states have had to deal with the same and as frequent issues. Why Victoria is worse, I don't know. No one does. No one can conclude something is done worse. What I do know is the Federal Government passing the buck of proper quarantine is to blame. That is not a state responsibility. It's the Federal Governments failure and Victoria is suffering because of it.

Also, in all honesty, do you really think if immigrants, where returned travellers were coming from, cultural practices etc were linked to the spread. Do you think they'd tell us? They didn't with the outbreak that caused the second wave. I don't know if this is the case, what I do think is certain is they would not tell us if it was.

Fun question if anyone knows the answer. I don't. Why with travel bans was the person who caught the virus in SA quarantine allowed to travel back and forth from overseas 3 times during the pandemic. WTF is that about? Isn't travel banned? Why am I constantly hearing stories of peoples struggles? Yet for some, no issues.

You keep mentioning SA quarantine when new reports theorise that they are not the issue in Victoria’s outbreak. Instead the theory is that Victoria’s own shoddy hotel quarantine program caused the problem.

 

Affable

Well-Known Member
The point is, no other states have had to deal with the same and as frequent issues. Why Victoria is worse, I don't know. No one does. No one can conclude something is done worse. What I do know is the Federal Government passing the buck of proper quarantine is to blame. That is not a state responsibility. It's the Federal Governments failure and Victoria is suffering because of it.

Perhaps because the Victorian Government are so inept that they are unable to run a hotel quarantine program effectively? Yet you have not considered that as it does not suit your political narrative.
 

Columbo

Somehow I Still Believe
Exponential growth. This literally isn't something you can risk circulating in low levels. Look at what happened in Taiwan. You can not get lax with this. This has been shown time and time again all over the world. Unfortunately, our shitty news doesn't really report what has been going on globally. So people are uninformed.

The potential exposure sites were all over Melbourne.




Yet literally no one can pinpoint or explain why it has gone wrong more often. Maybe it's just a feature that can't be explained? Maybe it's all just bad luck?

The point is, no other states have had to deal with the same and as frequent issues. Why Victoria is worse, I don't know. No one does. No one can conclude something is done worse. What I do know is the Federal Government passing the buck of proper quarantine is to blame. That is not a state responsibility. It's the Federal Governments failure and Victoria is suffering because of it.

Also, in all honesty, do you really think if immigrants, where returned travellers were coming from, cultural practices etc were linked to the spread. Do you think they'd tell us? They didn't with the outbreak that caused the second wave. I don't know if this is the case, what I do think is certain is they would not tell us if it was.

Fun question if anyone knows the answer. I don't. Why with travel bans was the person who caught the virus in SA quarantine allowed to travel back and forth from overseas 3 times during the pandemic. WTF is that about? Isn't travel banned? Why am I constantly hearing stories of peoples struggles? Yet for some, no issues.

Or maybe it's incompetence on the part of the Victorian government?
 

bleachy_dude

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
Yet literally no one can pinpoint or explain why it has gone wrong more often. Maybe it's just a feature that can't be explained? Maybe it's all just bad luck?

I can’t accept that it’s just bad luck when you compare Vic to NSW.
There’s got to be something to it, however I agree that it might be hard to pinpoint.

I wonder if our contact tracers are just simply better at their job. Didn’t Victoria send people to learn how NSW do it during their second wave? Or we sent people there.
 

rj90

Yeah, Nah.
I can’t accept that it’s just bad luck when you compare Vic to NSW.
There’s got to be something to it, however I agree that it might be hard to pinpoint.

I wonder if our contact tracers are just simply better at their job. Didn’t Victoria send people to learn how NSW do it during their second wave? Or we sent people there.

I think their terrible contact tracing is the biggest problem! I believe they did train with the NSW team, but I also read they rejected assistance with this latest outbreak. It's ok to ask for help, but for Victorian's to suffer constant lockdown because a government can't sort their shit out, is completely unfair on the people.

Does Victoria have a mandatory QR scanning system in place and if so, how long has it been in place?
 

up_all_night

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
You keep mentioning SA quarantine when new reports theorise that they are not the issue in Victoria’s outbreak. Instead the theory is that Victoria’s own shoddy hotel quarantine program caused the problem.


SA Quarantine issue caused this lockdown. During the testing blitz, they discovered there had been another breach, which is the Delta variant. Which thankfully appears to have been contained.

That is no different than what happened with the BBQ man in NSW a few weeks ago. A breach that luckily didn't have the transmissions to cause a lockdown.


Perhaps because the Victorian Government are so inept that they are unable to run a hotel quarantine program effectively? Yet you have not considered that as it does not suit your political narrative.

👏 QUARANTINE👏IS👏A👏FEDERAL👏GOVERNMENT👏RESPONSIBILITY👏

We are in a situation where the FEDERAL Government is shirking its responsibility and forcing states to use commercial hotels for a purpose they are not meant for. It is the government passing the buck, because they know it's a system that will and does have leaks. We should not be quarantining people in hotels in the city. We are forced to because ScoMo doesn't want to take the responsibility his role requires him to.

Or maybe it's incompetence on the part of the Victorian government?
Point to what is incompetent.

Last year there was improper training of staff. Which from what I gather is more to do with idiots unable to follow the rules. The improper training was not teaching people things like, "Hey that person quarantining in there because of a pandemic, don't breach quarantine and have sex with them."

The incompetence of Government with this current one is things like the Federal Government dropping the ban on aged care workers, working at different age care centres. With a policy to put the restriction in place, only after there's the virus spreading.

That's a policy failure. Not the State Governments. One we can point to. Not just going, "there must be one somewhere in how Vic does stuff."


I can’t accept that it’s just bad luck when you compare Vic to NSW.
There’s got to be something to it, however I agree that it might be hard to pinpoint.

We know breaches happen in this shitty quarantine system. They aren't just limited to Melbourne.

We have two leaks here. One was not the fault of Victoria. This caused the lockdown. The second is the Delta variant leak, which seems similar to BBQ man in NSW. A leak, that is hard to pin down how it occurred. That didn't spread enough to cause an issue. With the implication being, these kinds of small leaks have probably happened before and never been detected.



I wonder if our contact tracers are just simply better at their job. Didn’t Victoria send people to learn how NSW do it during their second wave? Or we sent people there.
I think their terrible contact tracing is the biggest problem! I believe they did train with the NSW team, but I also read they rejected assistance with this latest outbreak. It's ok to ask for help, but for Victorian's to suffer constant lockdown because a government can't sort their shit out, is completely unfair on the people.
Contact tracing has been superb this time around. That's not an issue with this outbreak. I believe there were issues last year. Not to make excuses, but it wasn't exactly an established practice when the pandemic hit. You would expect issues. It's foolish to assume that could be launched at the drop of a hat with no problems.

The only reason this lock down got a second week, seems to have been because of some false positives. Not the state Governments fault. Then the detection of another cluster with the Delta variant. Which seems to not require a lockdown.

Does Victoria have a mandatory QR scanning system in place and if so, how long has it been in place?

Since last year like everywhere else. That got rolled out across the place. Some states are a bit stricter than others. To reiterate, contact tracing isn't an issue this time.

The issue is a person left SA quarantine with the virus. Then had symptoms and didn't go get tested for many days. Once they had and it was discovered. Contact tracing showed exposure sites all across Melbourne. Requiring a lockdown. The risk of widespread transmission was high. It wasn't a case where you could geographically just lockdown a small area.

I have heard people say Melbourne's urban design, being more CBD focused, means people move around more. Although I can't evaluate that. So it wasn't that you could just lock down a Northern Beaches area. People move around too much here.
 

rj90

Yeah, Nah.
@up_all_night

I have read a number of articles that suggest that the contact tracing has been insufficient, along with rejections of assistance from other states, which is where I drew my conclusion from.

In your opinion, what is the reason that Victoria has been somewhat unsuccessful in managing the pandemic thus far in comparison to other states?
 

up_all_night

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
@up_all_night

I have read a number of articles that suggest that the contact tracing has been insufficient, along with rejections of assistance from other states, which is where I drew my conclusion from.

I am unaware of any issues in contact tracing with the current outbreak and lockdowns. They seem to be on top of it. With all the new cases being people already identified and quarantining when they became infectious.

I think there were some issues last year, but I don't know how you quantify that, with contact tracing in states without an outbreak.


@up_all_night

In your opinion, what is the reason that Victoria has been somewhat unsuccessful in managing the pandemic thus far in comparison to other states?

I honestly don't even know if that is a valid premise. Having more lockdowns doesn't in itself mean mismanagement of the pandemic. The clear mismanagement I see is the Federal Government. Who have failed on quarantine, failed on delivering the vaccine. Failed in how they protect people in aged care. Their policy is to force the states to implement a hotel quarantine system they themselves admit leaks the virus.

The Vic government had to force them kicking and screaming to help build a proper quarantine centre in the state.

I can see there may have been some mistakes made early on last year on the state level, yet they probably fall under trying to do things they hadn't done or planned for at a moments notice.

I can't see what mismanagement is being pointed to with this current issue. The transmission happened in quarantine in another state. Once discovered they acted quickly, traced known contacts and exposure sites. Restrictions will start easing on Friday because they successfully nipped this in the bud.

The Delta variant leak that was also detected. How that got out isn't discovered yet. Yet, how is that any different than them not knowing how it got out recently in NSW with BBQ man that mysteriously caught it?

What I would like to know is, with overseas travel banned. Why the hell are so many people given exemptions to travel back and forth from countries suffering badly with the pandemic? Who grants those exceptions? I have relatives trapped overseas. I have friends here from overseas desperate to visit their family overseas who can't. Yet we have people travelling multiple times back and forth from virus hotspots, who then leak the virus into the community. Like wtf?

EDIT: Side note, wastewater testing throughout the last year, shows us more leaks must be happening that don't cause spreads or are detected with in person covid tests. Maybe Victoria is outperforming other states at detecting leaks ::p
 
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Columbo

Somehow I Still Believe
SA Quarantine issue caused this lockdown. During the testing blitz, they discovered there had been another breach, which is the Delta variant. Which thankfully appears to have been contained.

That is no different than what happened with the BBQ man in NSW a few weeks ago. A breach that luckily didn't have the transmissions to cause a lockdown.




👏 QUARANTINE👏IS👏A👏FEDERAL👏GOVERNMENT👏RESPONSIBILITY👏

We are in a situation where the FEDERAL Government is shirking its responsibility and forcing states to use commercial hotels for a purpose they are not meant for. It is the government passing the buck, because they know it's a system that will and does have leaks. We should not be quarantining people in hotels in the city. We are forced to because ScoMo doesn't want to take the responsibility his role requires him to.


Point to what is incompetent.

Last year there was improper training of staff. Which from what I gather is more to do with idiots unable to follow the rules. The improper training was not teaching people things like, "Hey that person quarantining in there because of a pandemic, don't breach quarantine and have sex with them."

The incompetence of Government with this current one is things like the Federal Government dropping the ban on aged care workers, working at different age care centres. With a policy to put the restriction in place, only after there's the virus spreading.

That's a policy failure. Not the State Governments. One we can point to. Not just going, "there must be one somewhere in how Vic does stuff."




We know breaches happen in this shitty quarantine system. They aren't just limited to Melbourne.

We have two leaks here. One was not the fault of Victoria. This caused the lockdown. The second is the Delta variant leak, which seems similar to BBQ man in NSW. A leak, that is hard to pin down how it occurred. That didn't spread enough to cause an issue. With the implication being, these kinds of small leaks have probably happened before and never been detected.





Contact tracing has been superb this time around. That's not an issue with this outbreak. I believe there were issues last year. Not to make excuses, but it wasn't exactly an established practice when the pandemic hit. You would expect issues. It's foolish to assume that could be launched at the drop of a hat with no problems.

The only reason this lock down got a second week, seems to have been because of some false positives. Not the state Governments fault. Then the detection of another cluster with the Delta variant. Which seems to not require a lockdown.



Since last year like everywhere else. That got rolled out across the place. Some states are a bit stricter than others. To reiterate, contact tracing isn't an issue this time.

The issue is a person left SA quarantine with the virus. Then had symptoms and didn't go get tested for many days. Once they had and it was discovered. Contact tracing showed exposure sites all across Melbourne. Requiring a lockdown. The risk of widespread transmission was high. It wasn't a case where you could geographically just lockdown a small area.

I have heard people say Melbourne's urban design, being more CBD focused, means people move around more. Although I can't evaluate that. So it wasn't that you could just lock down a Northern Beaches area. People move around too much here.

Daniel incompetent Andrews was the incompetent one.
 

Affable

Well-Known Member
👏 QUARANTINE👏IS👏A👏FEDERAL👏GOVERNMENT👏RESPONSIBILITY👏

We are in a situation where the FEDERAL Government is shirking its responsibility and forcing states to use commercial hotels for a purpose they are not meant for. It is the government passing the buck, because they know it's a system that will and does have leaks. We should not be quarantining people in hotels in the city. We are forced to because ScoMo doesn't want to take the responsibility his role requires him to.

Again, you miss the point entirely...

Yes, hotel quarantine is a Federal responsibility. However, the Federal Government has met up with the states where an agreement was reached to run a hotel quarantine program.

If the hotel quarantine program is such a flawed commonwealth program, then why are the other states not having massive outbreaks? I will tell you why. It is because the other states have COMPETENT STATE GOVERNMENTS running the hotel quarantine program. So passing the blame onto the Federal Government for something that the Andrews Government is completely responsible for is very pathetic on your end but you are an ALP supporter so there is no reasoning for you.

Andrews has taken responsibility for the downfall. No idea why far left activists like yourself cannot.


I am unaware of any issues in contact tracing with the current outbreak and lockdowns. They seem to be on top of it. With all the new cases being people already identified and quarantining when they became infectious.

I think there were some issues last year, but I don't know how you quantify that, with contact tracing in states without an outbreak.




I honestly don't even know if that is a valid premise. Having more lockdowns doesn't in itself mean mismanagement of the pandemic. The clear mismanagement I see is the Federal Government. Who have failed on quarantine, failed on delivering the vaccine. Failed in how they protect people in aged care. Their policy is to force the states to implement a hotel quarantine system they themselves admit leaks the virus.

The Vic government had to force them kicking and screaming to help build a proper quarantine centre in the state.

I can see there may have been some mistakes made early on last year on the state level, yet they probably fall under trying to do things they hadn't done or planned for at a moments notice.

I can't see what mismanagement is being pointed to with this current issue. The transmission happened in quarantine in another state. Once discovered they acted quickly, traced known contacts and exposure sites. Restrictions will start easing on Friday because they successfully nipped this in the bud.

The Delta variant leak that was also detected. How that got out isn't discovered yet. Yet, how is that any different than them not knowing how it got out recently in NSW with BBQ man that mysteriously caught it?

What I would like to know is, with overseas travel banned. Why the hell are so many people given exemptions to travel back and forth from countries suffering badly with the pandemic? Who grants those exceptions? I have relatives trapped overseas. I have friends here from overseas desperate to visit their family overseas who can't. Yet we have people travelling multiple times back and forth from virus hotspots, who then leak the virus into the community. Like wtf?

EDIT: Side note, wastewater testing throughout the last year, shows us more leaks must be happening that don't cause spreads or are detected with in person covid tests. Maybe Victoria is outperforming other states at detecting leaks ::p

I actually feel sorry for you. You are seriously brainwashed if you believe all that you just wrote and you are beyond the point of return.
 
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up_all_night

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
Again, you miss the point entirely...

Yes, hotel quarantine is a Federal responsibility. However, the Federal Government has met up with the states where an agreement was reached to run a hotel quarantine program.

If the hotel quarantine program is such a flawed commonwealth program, then why are the other states not having massive outbreaks? I will tell you why. It is because the other states have COMPETENT STATE GOVERNMENTS running the hotel quarantine program. So passing the blame onto the Federal Government for something that the Andrews Government is completely responsible for is very pathetic on your end but you are an ALP supporter so there is no reasoning for you.

Andrews has taken responsibility for the downfall. No idea why far left activists like yourself cannot.




I actually feel sorry for you. You are seriously brainwashed if you believe all that you just wrote and you are beyond the point of return.

The states have no choice but to run hotel quarantine. As the Federal Government won't.

I'm not brainwashed at all. I am just practical and reasonable. This isn't even a Victorian breach of quarantine that caused the lockdown. Constantly referring to it as such is being deliberately misleading. It's being in bad faith.

We don't know the total number of breaches that have occurred. More have happened than we know of.

The number of identified HQ breaches in Australia between April 2020 and June 2021 is 21.
  • three in Queensland
  • eight in New South Wales
  • two in South Australia
  • five in Victoria
  • three in Western Australia.

This google doc doing the rounds has 28.
  • Three QLD
  • Ten in NSW
  • Two in SA
  • Seven in Vic
  • Six in WA
Not sure the difference, may be significant breaches in the first.

WHY IS NSW SO MUCH WORSE AT HOTEL QUARANTINE??? That Korrupt Koala Killing premier must take responsibility and commit seppuku.

So the premise Victoria is on its own level of incompetence with HQ is simply false. NSW has had more breaches. Why aren't your buddies on Sky News complaining about that?
 
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