US 2016 Presidential Election

[pecan]

I'm still in shock, and I'm worried what message this sends to the world on gender rights. That America could elect a man with his history of how he treats women, and with the allegations he's facing. What message does that send into some of the worst parts of the world for abuses on women's rights, for them to see him be elected? And even in the Western world, what does that encourage? Eg those students at the University of Sydney last night:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/donald-tr...sydney-us-election-party-20161109-gslwgg.html
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...r/news-story/b6e4d6fd21664726944b0206c31d4953

THIS -

Yep, was thinking last night, Americans have elected someone as loony as Latham, thankfully our political system is more robust and weeded him out when he went super loony.

If Latham supports him, then I think Latham will be representative of the working class voters who will get buyer's remorse when they realise they just elected someone who's a typical Republican when it comes to things like tax cuts for the wealthy and where he would cut spending to pay for it. With Latham's strongly Labor past, I can't imagine he would support the budget bills the US will be seeing over the next four years.

Thank you Pecan for your links and comments throughout the day....I was at work and could only just glimpse BBB every now and then...

No worries Medusa.

 

[kxk]

Google searches for 'Australia immigration' spike as Americans try to move countries after Trump's win

• 'Australia immigration' and 'New Zealand immigration' searched in Google
• The searched terms in Google peaked about 4am Wednesday, U.S. EST
• NZ's visa website has had more than double its usual traffic
• Celebrities Miley Cyrus, Kesha, Cher, Barbra Streisand threatened to move
• Canada's immigration website crashed as the results trickled in

Clinton voters have been frantically searching for an escape to Australia and New Zealand in the hours since Donald Trump won the presidential election.

'Australia immigration' and 'New Zealand immigration' were some of the most searched terms in Google over the past 24 hours, peaking 4am Wednesday, EST.

Canada's main immigration website remained down as NZ reported increased traffic to its website for residency visas from the U.S. as Trump surged to victory.

The potential surge follows an already high population of Americans in Australia, New York Times reported just last week.

Over the past 15 years, the country's population in Australia has almost doubled from about 50,000 to 100,000.

They initially move to Australia temporary for well-paid jobs, but decide to stay on long-term after enjoying the quality of life.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Zealand-immigration-sites.html#ixzz4PZhxvfG5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[kxk]

What I find most worrying is how weak the US democracy is, it is appalling

How to Rig an Election

Paul Krugman
...........................let’s be clear: this was, in fact, a rigged election.

• 
  The election was rigged by state governments that did all they could to prevent nonwhite Americans from voting: The spirit of Jim Crow is very much alive — or maybe translate that to Diego Cuervo, now that Latinos have joined African-Americans as targets. Voter ID laws, rationalized by demonstrably fake concerns about election fraud, were used to disenfranchise thousands; others were discouraged by a systematic effort to make voting hard, by closing polling places in areas with large minority populations.
  
  The election was rigged by Russian intelligence, which was almost surely behind the hacking of Democratic emails, which WikiLeaks then released with great fanfare. Nothing truly scandalous emerged, but the Russians judged, correctly, that the news media would hype the revelation that major party figures are human beings, and that politicians engage in politics, as somehow damning.
  The election was rigged by James Comey, the director of the F.B.I. His job is to police crime — but instead he used his position to spread innuendo and influence the election. Was he deliberately putting a thumb on the electoral scales, or was he simply bullied by Republican operatives? It doesn’t matter: He abused his office, shamefully.
  
  The election was also rigged by people within the F.B.I. — people who clearly felt that under Mr. Comey they had a free hand to indulge their political preferences. In the final days of the campaign, pro-Trump agents have clearly been talking nonstop to Republicans like Rudy Giuliani and right-wing media, putting claims and allegations that may or may not have anything to do with reality into the air. The agency clearly needs a major housecleaning: Having an important part of our national security apparatus trying to subvert an election is deeply scary. Unfortunately, Mr. Comey is just the man not to do it.

The election was rigged by partisan media, especially Fox News, which trumpeted falsehoods, then retracted them, if at all, so quietly that almost nobody heard. For days Fox blared the supposed news that the F.B.I. was preparing an indictment of the Clinton Foundation. When it finally admitted that the story was false, Donald Trump’s campaign manager smugly remarked, “The damage is done to Hillary Clinton.”

The election was rigged by mainstream news organizations, many of which simply refused to report on policy issues, a refusal that clearly favored the candidate who lies about these issues all the time, and has no coherent proposals to offer.Take the nightly network news broadcasts: In 2016 all three combined devoted a total of 32 minutes to coverage of issues — all issues. Climate change, the most important issue we face, received no coverage at all.

The election was rigged by the media obsession with Hillary Clinton’s emails. She shouldn’t have used her own server, but there is no evidence at all that she did anything unethical, let alone illegal. The whole thing is orders of magnitude less important than multiple scandals involving her opponent — remember, Donald Trump never released his tax returns. Yet those networks that found only 32 minutes for all policy issues combined found 100 minutes to talk about Clinton emails.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/07/opinion/how-to-rig-an-election.html

 

[Columbo]

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Blog post back in July.

 

[timmy]

Yesterday made Brexit look like a walk in the park. How incredibly depressing, and what a sad indictment on the American people.

 

[kxk]

And now, in hindsight, we should have seen this coming.
America is fucked, they kill each other and kids and don't seem to care at all.
It appears to be open season on any black person.

They worship a family with fat arses and nothing else to recommend them.
This alone should have been the biggest warning.
And they almost went bankrupt because of their shonky banks and financial system, and they just let those guys get away with it - and elect a shonky businessman, hmm.

 

[kxk]

What happens when his crazy ideas don't come true?
When no wall pops up, and no jobs happen, and nothing butt crap does happen - like making abortions illegal again?
Trump is so weird, he could get quite bored easily, especially when he keeps not getting his way.
He might have a tantrum and quit sometime.
And he is old and fat he may die.
There is some hope

 

[derspatz]

"Bill Johnson

I was told if I voted for Trump I needed to open my bible to find out why it was morally wrong. So I did, and this is what I found.

I found that murder/abortion was wrong, which Clinton approves of even up to the point of delivery. Changing the name from baby to fetus doesn't change reality. It's a baby. A woman has a right to decide what happens to her own body. But all of our rights stop when they violate the rights of another - in this case the unborn. I also found that one of the main biblical purposes of authority is to speak on behalf of those who have no voice. The unborn qualify. They wait silently for someone to stand up and speak. Clinton has refused to do so.

I found that one of the primary responsibilities of the government to protect its citizens. Clinton pulled the protection back from our representatives who were crying out for help at Benghazi. She then deceptively blamed a video on YouTube, knowing it wasn't true.

I found that compassion for aliens (visitors to a nation) is vital, but here again the responsibility to provide safety for its citizens comes first. Open boarders violates such a responsibility, creating an impossible task for our law enforcement officers who already live in the daily challenge of risking their lives to provide safety for all enter our borders, citizens or not. We also have a great need to demonstrate compassion to those who are here illegally to come to a redemptive solution where possible. On the other hand what right do our leaders have of choosing what laws they want to enforce or ignore. By implication that places governmental officials above the law itself. "Illegal alien" speaks for itself. If it's a bad law, change it.

I found that honesty is a core value of Gods kingdom and that Clinton violated that value when she deleted hundreds of thousands of emails, some of them classified, and then lied about it to congress and tried to destroy the evidence. Some of the classified emails were given to unclassified people, putting our safety as a nation in jeopardy.

I found that God gives us the ability to make wealth, and that merely giving people money without work can create a lifestyle of dependency that is dangerous for them and our government. The failed liberal agenda espoused by Clinton actually creates the problems they claim to fix. I also found that often times the welfare system masquerades as compassionate when it actually robs people of their much needed self esteem gained in their ability to work. Each person has the right to work to create wealth for their families in order to break the cycle of systemic poverty. This is the heart God for every household of every race. The problem won't be fixed by merely throwing money at the problem. But neither will it be fixed without throwing money at the problem. People compassionately helping people is desperately needed. It is also the privileged responsibility of any society to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

I found that redefining the family according to the latest immoral code is in fact cursed by God. Tragically this is a primary focus and value of the Clinton candidacy.

I found that socialism is contrary to Jesus and His teachings. He strongly taught of the importance of giving to the poor. But when he talked about taking from the one person who had one talent (a sum of money) and gave it to the one who had the most, He disqualified himself from being a socialist. Socialism robs people of personal identity and liberty at the expense of national control and power. The liberal agenda, of which Clinton takes center stage, embraces this theme proudly. When government takes from the rich to give to the poor they rob the wealthy of the self esteem gained from being a part of the solution through compassion. I cannot call it compassion if I take your money and give to someone in need. It's only compassion when I give my own.

I found that the accusations of racism to be serious enough for all Americans to stop and take notice that we might be a part of the solution and not add to the problem. When I looked at Trumps personal staff and the workers in his businesses and I found happy minority workers who were very thankful for their boss. I also found that accusation is a trick of the devil to create fear, thus manipulating peoples decision making process. I found that the devil himself is called the accuser, and that often times good people fall into that trap thinking they are doing the rest of us a good service by creating an evil image of someone when their perception is in itself wrong. Trump was never called a racist until he ran against Clinton.

I found that he who blesses Israel is blessed of the Lord, and that the present liberal agenda has put at risk decades of success with this important ally.

I found that political correctness is nothing new, and that Jesus Himself faced these challenges. He refused to be governed by popular opinion. I found that the fear of man, which is the goal of political correctness, is a stench in the nostrils of God for it removes freedom to think for oneself.

I found that God values each nation uniquely, and that the present move towards globalization is nothing more than a modern Tower of Babel. It is mans efforts towards creating unity through uniformity instead of being free to celebrate diversity both with individuals and nations.

I found that speaking of women in a sexually demeaning way is wrong, as is treating any other human being as a piece of property. It is inexcusable, but not unforgivable. I also found that it is important to forgive people who have asked for forgiveness. Trump acknowledged his error of ten years ago and publicly apologized. I hope that those who judge him for that sin are not also judged for what they did wrong that they have confessed. For what it's worth I often look at the children of an individual to be able to measure what kind of person they really are. Trumps children adore their dad and work for and with him honorably. I want the same for all who read this.

All elections are tough. This one more so than any other I can remember. And there very legitimate reasons for voting for or against any given candidate. Unfortunately neither Billy Graham or Mother Theresa were running for office. That leaves us with the responsibility to do our best with what we have. And I have done that, with a good conscience. I believe the outcome is from the Lord. At the same time I realize that many people I care for don't see it that way at all. Regardless, my love for God and people remains the same. And as I did for Clinton, Bush, and Obama, I pray for protection for President Trump and his family, that he would have great wisdom for his near impossible assignment, and that he would always listen to godly counsel. I pray that he would increase in favor with God and man. I pray for those who are in despair because of the outcome of this election, that God Himself would give them peace and a hope filled promise. And finally I pray that each of us would have a life of realizing the fulfillment of dreams, with great health and blessing in every area of life."



regarDS

 

[Isee]

"Bill Johnson

I was told if I voted for Trump I needed to open my bible to find out why it was morally wrong. So I did, and this is what I found.

I found that murder/abortion was wrong, which Clinton approves of even up to the point of delivery. Changing the name from baby to fetus doesn't change reality. It's a baby. A woman has a right to decide what happens to her own body. But all of our rights stop when they violate the rights of another - in this case the unborn. I also found that one of the main biblical purposes of authority is to speak on behalf of those who have no voice. The unborn qualify. They wait silently for someone to stand up and speak. Clinton has refused to do so.

I found that one of the primary responsibilities of the government to protect its citizens. Clinton pulled the protection back from our representatives who were crying out for help at Benghazi. She then deceptively blamed a video on YouTube, knowing it wasn't true.

I found that compassion for aliens (visitors to a nation) is vital, but here again the responsibility to provide safety for its citizens comes first. Open boarders violates such a responsibility, creating an impossible task for our law enforcement officers who already live in the daily challenge of risking their lives to provide safety for all enter our borders, citizens or not. We also have a great need to demonstrate compassion to those who are here illegally to come to a redemptive solution where possible. On the other hand what right do our leaders have of choosing what laws they want to enforce or ignore. By implication that places governmental officials above the law itself. "Illegal alien" speaks for itself. If it's a bad law, change it.

I found that honesty is a core value of Gods kingdom and that Clinton violated that value when she deleted hundreds of thousands of emails, some of them classified, and then lied about it to congress and tried to destroy the evidence. Some of the classified emails were given to unclassified people, putting our safety as a nation in jeopardy.

I found that God gives us the ability to make wealth, and that merely giving people money without work can create a lifestyle of dependency that is dangerous for them and our government. The failed liberal agenda espoused by Clinton actually creates the problems they claim to fix. I also found that often times the welfare system masquerades as compassionate when it actually robs people of their much needed self esteem gained in their ability to work. Each person has the right to work to create wealth for their families in order to break the cycle of systemic poverty. This is the heart God for every household of every race. The problem won't be fixed by merely throwing money at the problem. But neither will it be fixed without throwing money at the problem. People compassionately helping people is desperately needed. It is also the privileged responsibility of any society to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

I found that redefining the family according to the latest immoral code is in fact cursed by God. Tragically this is a primary focus and value of the Clinton candidacy.

I found that socialism is contrary to Jesus and His teachings. He strongly taught of the importance of giving to the poor. But when he talked about taking from the one person who had one talent (a sum of money) and gave it to the one who had the most, He disqualified himself from being a socialist. Socialism robs people of personal identity and liberty at the expense of national control and power. The liberal agenda, of which Clinton takes center stage, embraces this theme proudly. When government takes from the rich to give to the poor they rob the wealthy of the self esteem gained from being a part of the solution through compassion. I cannot call it compassion if I take your money and give to someone in need. It's only compassion when I give my own.

I found that the accusations of racism to be serious enough for all Americans to stop and take notice that we might be a part of the solution and not add to the problem. When I looked at Trumps personal staff and the workers in his businesses and I found happy minority workers who were very thankful for their boss. I also found that accusation is a trick of the devil to create fear, thus manipulating peoples decision making process. I found that the devil himself is called the accuser, and that often times good people fall into that trap thinking they are doing the rest of us a good service by creating an evil image of someone when their perception is in itself wrong. Trump was never called a racist until he ran against Clinton.

I found that he who blesses Israel is blessed of the Lord, and that the present liberal agenda has put at risk decades of success with this important ally.

I found that political correctness is nothing new, and that Jesus Himself faced these challenges. He refused to be governed by popular opinion. I found that the fear of man, which is the goal of political correctness, is a stench in the nostrils of God for it removes freedom to think for oneself.

I found that God values each nation uniquely, and that the present move towards globalization is nothing more than a modern Tower of Babel. It is mans efforts towards creating unity through uniformity instead of being free to celebrate diversity both with individuals and nations.

I found that speaking of women in a sexually demeaning way is wrong, as is treating any other human being as a piece of property. It is inexcusable, but not unforgivable. I also found that it is important to forgive people who have asked for forgiveness. Trump acknowledged his error of ten years ago and publicly apologized. I hope that those who judge him for that sin are not also judged for what they did wrong that they have confessed. For what it's worth I often look at the children of an individual to be able to measure what kind of person they really are. Trumps children adore their dad and work for and with him honorably. I want the same for all who read this.

All elections are tough. This one more so than any other I can remember. And there very legitimate reasons for voting for or against any given candidate. Unfortunately neither Billy Graham or Mother Theresa were running for office. That leaves us with the responsibility to do our best with what we have. And I have done that, with a good conscience. I believe the outcome is from the Lord. At the same time I realize that many people I care for don't see it that way at all. Regardless, my love for God and people remains the same. And as I did for Clinton, Bush, and Obama, I pray for protection for President Trump and his family, that he would have great wisdom for his near impossible assignment, and that he would always listen to godly counsel. I pray that he would increase in favor with God and man. I pray for those who are in despair because of the outcome of this election, that God Himself would give them peace and a hope filled promise. And finally I pray that each of us would have a life of realizing the fulfillment of dreams, with great health and blessing in every area of life."



regarDS

Whilst there is a lot there I don't agree, which sorry I am way too tired tonight to discuss, but I just wanted to acknowledge this post. This is a really well written response, and you can't begrudge Bill at least took his democratic right seriously.

 

[Columbo]

I think Clinton's problem was that she couldn't shake the perception of her being a rich liberal elite who rubbed shoulders with Hollywood Celebrities whilst laughing at the poor.

Which is of course bullshit.

But it doesn't matter that it was all rubbish. Fact is that the 2016 US election was about Class. Not about gender or race.

Perception matters.

 

[derspatz]

While this has me thinkin "awesome" ...

http://joannenova.com.au/2016/11/trump-victory-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-global-climate-scare/

... this simply has me thinkin "what tha ?"

regarDS

 

[Tee]

"Bill Johnson

I was told if I voted for Trump I needed to open my bible to find out why it was morally wrong. So I did, and this is what I found.

I found that murder/abortion was wrong, which Clinton approves of even up to the point of delivery. Changing the name from baby to fetus doesn't change reality. It's a baby. A woman has a right to decide what happens to her own body. But all of our rights stop when they violate the rights of another - in this case the unborn. I also found that one of the main biblical purposes of authority is to speak on behalf of those who have no voice. The unborn qualify. They wait silently for someone to stand up and speak. Clinton has refused to do so.

I found that one of the primary responsibilities of the government to protect its citizens. Clinton pulled the protection back from our representatives who were crying out for help at Benghazi. She then deceptively blamed a video on YouTube, knowing it wasn't true.

I found that compassion for aliens (visitors to a nation) is vital, but here again the responsibility to provide safety for its citizens comes first. Open boarders violates such a responsibility, creating an impossible task for our law enforcement officers who already live in the daily challenge of risking their lives to provide safety for all enter our borders, citizens or not. We also have a great need to demonstrate compassion to those who are here illegally to come to a redemptive solution where possible. On the other hand what right do our leaders have of choosing what laws they want to enforce or ignore. By implication that places governmental officials above the law itself. "Illegal alien" speaks for itself. If it's a bad law, change it.

I found that honesty is a core value of Gods kingdom and that Clinton violated that value when she deleted hundreds of thousands of emails, some of them classified, and then lied about it to congress and tried to destroy the evidence. Some of the classified emails were given to unclassified people, putting our safety as a nation in jeopardy.

I found that God gives us the ability to make wealth, and that merely giving people money without work can create a lifestyle of dependency that is dangerous for them and our government. The failed liberal agenda espoused by Clinton actually creates the problems they claim to fix. I also found that often times the welfare system masquerades as compassionate when it actually robs people of their much needed self esteem gained in their ability to work. Each person has the right to work to create wealth for their families in order to break the cycle of systemic poverty. This is the heart God for every household of every race. The problem won't be fixed by merely throwing money at the problem. But neither will it be fixed without throwing money at the problem. People compassionately helping people is desperately needed. It is also the privileged responsibility of any society to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

I found that redefining the family according to the latest immoral code is in fact cursed by God. Tragically this is a primary focus and value of the Clinton candidacy.

I found that socialism is contrary to Jesus and His teachings. He strongly taught of the importance of giving to the poor. But when he talked about taking from the one person who had one talent (a sum of money) and gave it to the one who had the most, He disqualified himself from being a socialist. Socialism robs people of personal identity and liberty at the expense of national control and power. The liberal agenda, of which Clinton takes center stage, embraces this theme proudly. When government takes from the rich to give to the poor they rob the wealthy of the self esteem gained from being a part of the solution through compassion. I cannot call it compassion if I take your money and give to someone in need. It's only compassion when I give my own.

I found that the accusations of racism to be serious enough for all Americans to stop and take notice that we might be a part of the solution and not add to the problem. When I looked at Trumps personal staff and the workers in his businesses and I found happy minority workers who were very thankful for their boss. I also found that accusation is a trick of the devil to create fear, thus manipulating peoples decision making process. I found that the devil himself is called the accuser, and that often times good people fall into that trap thinking they are doing the rest of us a good service by creating an evil image of someone when their perception is in itself wrong. Trump was never called a racist until he ran against Clinton.

I found that he who blesses Israel is blessed of the Lord, and that the present liberal agenda has put at risk decades of success with this important ally.

I found that political correctness is nothing new, and that Jesus Himself faced these challenges. He refused to be governed by popular opinion. I found that the fear of man, which is the goal of political correctness, is a stench in the nostrils of God for it removes freedom to think for oneself.

I found that God values each nation uniquely, and that the present move towards globalization is nothing more than a modern Tower of Babel. It is mans efforts towards creating unity through uniformity instead of being free to celebrate diversity both with individuals and nations.

I found that speaking of women in a sexually demeaning way is wrong, as is treating any other human being as a piece of property. It is inexcusable, but not unforgivable. I also found that it is important to forgive people who have asked for forgiveness. Trump acknowledged his error of ten years ago and publicly apologized. I hope that those who judge him for that sin are not also judged for what they did wrong that they have confessed. For what it's worth I often look at the children of an individual to be able to measure what kind of person they really are. Trumps children adore their dad and work for and with him honorably. I want the same for all who read this.

All elections are tough. This one more so than any other I can remember. And there very legitimate reasons for voting for or against any given candidate. Unfortunately neither Billy Graham or Mother Theresa were running for office. That leaves us with the responsibility to do our best with what we have. And I have done that, with a good conscience. I believe the outcome is from the Lord. At the same time I realize that many people I care for don't see it that way at all. Regardless, my love for God and people remains the same. And as I did for Clinton, Bush, and Obama, I pray for protection for President Trump and his family, that he would have great wisdom for his near impossible assignment, and that he would always listen to godly counsel. I pray that he would increase in favor with God and man. I pray for those who are in despair because of the outcome of this election, that God Himself would give them peace and a hope filled promise. And finally I pray that each of us would have a life of realizing the fulfillment of dreams, with great health and blessing in every area of life."



regarDS

Hello Unkie Bernie!

My two cents:- History has shown us what happens when you blindlessly blame a minority group for your problems; history has shown us what happens when we build walls to segregate people from people; and history has shown us what happens when a race felt they were the chosen ones. I can't believe with all history has taught us that a majority would chose this man to lead their county and think his ideas would bring a positive change. The USA is a great country, and to continue to be a great country it needs a great leader. I hope the USA can pull together and Trump can lead with the job of uniting the country in the most forefront of his mind. Like Australia the US is brimming with good people, just wanting to work hard and build a brighter future. Trump now has the task to do everything he can to achieve that. He also needs to dial back on the instant tan. The man is looking orange!

 

[Tee]

And now, in hindsight, we should have seen this coming.
America is fucked, they kill each other and kids and don't seem to care at all.
It appears to be open season on any black person.

They worship a family with fat arses and nothing else to recommend them.
This alone should have been the biggest warning.
And they almost went bankrupt because of their shonky banks and financial system, and they just let those guys get away with it - and elect a shonky businessman, hmm.

If you added just one more ounce of hate into your ignorant heart I swear you would implode.

Your posts are quite simply overflowing with vitriol, generalisations, inaccuracies and mindless hate.

 

[Tee]

Yesterday made Brexit look like a walk in the park. How incredibly depressing, and what a sad indictment on the American people.

We were watching it at work, and the domino effect of shock, fear and disbelief that dominoed through the ward, from doctors to patients as the result came in the mood can only be described as sombre.

It is one of those rare moments where you will always remember exactly where you were when Trump won presidency.

A ward funny, being a nurse I work with the United Nations and after the winner was called, a male nurse said "I will be fine, I am a straight white man" he then looked at us and said "you guys are in a world of worry though..."

 

[timmy]

after the winner was called, a male nurse said "I will be fine, I am a straight white man" he then looked at us and said "you guys are in a world of worry though..."

haha, it's funny cos it's true. Oh.

We made it through George W's presidency, so there's hope we will make it through Trump's. Who knows, maybe he won't get returned in 2020? There's always hope.

I saw a graph that showed 10 million fewer Democrats voted this election than in 2012. People truly wanted Obama. Hillary, not so much.

 

[Fiona]

What happens when his crazy ideas don't come true?
When no wall pops up, and no jobs happen, and nothing butt crap does happen - like making abortions illegal again?
Trump is so weird, he could get quite bored easily, especially when he keeps not getting his way.
He might have a tantrum and quit sometime.
And he is old and fat he may die.
There is some hope

I mentioned to a few people that it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't see out the full term, for whatever reason. There may well be another grassy knoll type situation in the offing.
Where in the US are you situated?

 

[Columbo]

haha, it's funny cos it's true. Oh.

We made it through George W's presidency, so there's hope we will make it through Trump's. Who knows, maybe he won't get returned in 2020? There's always hope.

I saw a graph that showed 10 million fewer Democrats voted this election than in 2012. People truly wanted Obama. Hillary, not so much.

I think for a Democrat to win back the White House they need to heed the lessons of this election. Which hopefully they will.

I also read a news article today where Bill Clinton was wondering why the campaign wasn't trying to do more to win over working class voters. But they dismissed his advice. Which was foolish.

 

[derspatz]

If you added just one more ounce of hate into your ignorant heart I swear you would implode.

Your posts are quite simply overflowing with vitriol, generalisations, inaccuracies and mindless hate.

Howdy lahdeedah

By coinkydink (and, believe it or not, what follows is near to the first and certainly the most I've personally commented on the topic to date; I'm far more interested in music performance these daze ) here's a somewhat related comment added to mailing list post I chose to forward to my son this morning.

quoth-on
derspatz
09:39 (1 hour ago)

to ozltuae

First up, congrats on your latest win, henry

I've been forwarding some of this thread to my 24yo son and today I could no longer hold back on adding my own commentary on the topic, so this accompanied a forward of Mique's pointed posting.

"Mike weighs in. you woulda met him as a kid in canberra at the street side bbq and dac there as well and when visited us in york with val.

The scary thing for me re: the collectivist socialist leftwing biggov rightsrightsrights supporting hivemind vs my kind of libertarian conservative individualism personalresponsibilitybeforerights centrism and mindownbusinessism is that to differ in view from the hivemind is to be deemed throwtothegroundandkicktodeath evil.

This is showing with hiveminders ( including dac ) calling for trump to be murdered whereas justice minded non loony lefty types are merely calling for the likes of clinton to have her obvious crimes examined in a court of law like any other person.

Anyhoo, is mostly the usual bigblobmadmob vs individualism that always has been humanity''s bane i reckon. the mob need each other and give each other licence to do and be the worst and the individuals barely need anybody else, let alone the mad mob

regarDS"

Anyhoo++ one and all, do keep up both the good and bad work that'll help see the return of our Creator and Lord all the sooner to do away with n replace all the governments (etc) of humans and devils alike

Oh, and deem various analogies and references relating to the separation of wheat and chaff included, too.
Oh++, remember "be entertaining" ?

regarDS

DAC sez

>He's a guy's blog I read, he's young and full of hope about many things,
>and makes some excellent points:
>
>http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/11/its-going-to-be-okay.html
>
>It's quite soppy about America being full of American's, but that's ok too.
>
>Dac

MIQUE sez

First sensible thing I've read in days if not years.

A few observations:

1. Nobody knows how Trump will perform as President, and the
pundits have been nothing but wrong in their opinions throughout this
entire election season. There's no reason to suggest that they'll be
any more accurate in predicting Trump's failure as President.

2. Liberals (US-style) have no sense of proportion. It is their most
common, greatest and most persistent fault. Everything/everyone they
oppose is unarguably evil, and vice versa. This trait is on display
in the flood of hysteria pouring out of the airwaves and the Internet.

3. People who voted for Obama because he's black, and for Clinton
because she's a woman, or for Trump because he's a white man simply
aren't qualified to have the franchise. There are essential traits
and desirable traits. Race and a person's sex are no better than
desirable, and very minor desirables at that.

4. Neither Trump nor Clinton were "suitable" candidates by any
"normal" measure (and I've said so from the outset). Trump, because
he has no experience in politics and is, on the surface at least, a
populist buffoon. But when has that been a fatal handicap for the US
Presidency? Every President who comes from the side other than our
own has filled that description perfectly, n'est pas? Clinton, let's
be honest, is the perfect mate for her despicable husband, and has
been working the system for her own and her family's ends since
Whitewater and beyond. Her performance as Secretary of State has been
one of incompetence and/or utter corruption. Whatever one feels about
the position of the US as leader of the western world, things are
immeasurably more unstable and dangerous to us all than they were
before her time, and have not been improved in any measurable way by
anything she has done. Her lies about Benghazi, to the public but
most significantly to the families of the four US people killed there,
are unforgiveable, and anyone who has voted for her despite those
multitude of adverse things is too stupid to be aware that they
happened, or too cynical to care.

5. That the situation described in the last para existed is not
the fault of either Clinton or Trump. It's the fault of the American
people who have continued to tolerate, until now, a corrupt and
irredeemable political system. One blogger, a former senior State
Department Foreign Service officer, has said that having officially
observed/supervised many elections in Third World countries, he could
not say that these or most other American elections in recent years
could withstand independent audit by disinterested expert authorities
such as those used by the UN in the Third World. People voted for
Trump despite his being confronted by a raft of more conventionally
credible, mainstream Republican candidates. Media hubris and
progressive hatreds aside, it's unlikely that all, or even most of
them are the ignorant fools they are made out to be. And even if they
are, who says that ignorant fools should not have a say in who governs
them? Progressives with no sense of proportion but boundless hubris,
that's who. On the other hand, Clinton's candidacy was a lay-down
misere, with only Bernie Sanders, a virtual unknown and hardly a
credible competitor for the Clinton machine. At the very best, she
was offering more of the same, and it was precisely that which the
electorate showed it was unwilling to tolerate.

6. For me, the most worrying feature of these elections has been
the willingness of the mainstream media and of a seemingly
overwhelming majority of journalists to throw professional ethics out
the window and to actively connive with their preferred side. The
media here are bad enough, as the weeping, gnashing of teeth, rending
of garments and the rain of sackcloth and ashes in the papers here
today confirm. That individual journalists, no matter their seniority
of lack of it, are allowed to spruik their personal political druthers
under their own byline is a retrograde step unless clearly segregated
as opinion, and how many do you know whose opinion is worth
reading/listening to? Allowing opinion to influence, indeed censor
news is unforgiveable.

7. Where to now? I don't think Trump will be allowed to get away
with anything which is the sole thing that makes me pleased that he
won the election. Even with a Republican Congress, he will be kept
under as tight a rein as possible if only in the instincts for the
self-preservation of Republican congress critters who will react to
the predictably hostile media campaigns likely to carry on where they
left off yesterday for the foreseeable. On the other hand, a
sycophantic media and a docile Congress would have handed Clinton the
keys to Fort Knox which, I'm sure, has been her aim since early
childhood.

Mique
quoth-off

Okay, back to learning jigs and reels on my mandolin

Oh, and deem "hatez gonna hate" included

regarDS

 

[pecan]

We made it through George W's presidency, so there's hope we will make it through Trump's. Who knows, maybe he won't get returned in 2020? There's always hope.

Hopefully the shock of the next two years might jolt more people into voting in the midterms. That's one thing the Democrats really need to fix - their low voter turnout in midterms and the effect that has on their numbers in Congress given the cumulative nature of their voting system. Midterms have the full House go up and a third of the Senate, just like in Presidential years, yet so many voters sit it out.

Some hope for the midterms:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-10/trump-era-will-be-great-for-the-democratic-party

I think for a Democrat to win back the White House they need to heed the lessons of this election. Which hopefully they will.

I also read a news article today where Bill Clinton was wondering why the campaign wasn't trying to do more to win over working class voters. But they dismissed his advice. Which was foolish.

Yes, it was hard to understand the level of working class support the Republicans were getting given their history on the minimum wage, healthcare, taxation, social security etc. But that comes down to the media's lack of coverage of policy issues too. Trump changed his stance on the minimum wage mid-year, yet the trust issues surrounding that weren't given much coverage in the lead-up to the election.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ald-trump-gets-full-flop-stance-minimum-wage/

 

[Columbo]

Hopefully the shock of the next two years might jolt more people into voting in the midterms. That's one thing the Democrats really need to fix - their low voter turnout in midterms and the effect that has on their numbers in Congress given the cumulative nature of their voting system. Midterms have the full House go up and a third of the Senate, just like in Presidential years, yet so many voters sit it out.

Some hope for the midterms:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-10/trump-era-will-be-great-for-the-democratic-party



Yes, it was hard to understand the level of working class support the Republicans were getting given their history on the minimum wage, healthcare, taxation, social security etc. But that comes down to the media's lack of coverage of policy issues too. Trump changed his stance on the minimum wage mid-year, yet the trust issues surrounding that weren't given much coverage in the lead-up to the election.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ald-trump-gets-full-flop-stance-minimum-wage/

That is true, the republicans are awful for the poor.

But perception matters.