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Michael's joke?
- Thread starter kbomb247
- Start date
To the haters Estelle is always wrong.
I disagree. 1) the BB house is not that big really. 2) why should she walk away when Michael KNOWS it is offensive, hence why he uses it in his point to prove how racism is offensive. C) common courtesy should prevail You know something is offensive to someone you just do not repeat it again, in front of them. End. of. story. To do so in other instance i.e. such as in a work place, could be considered harassment and would be a reportable offense.
See the thing is EVERYONE agrees it is an offensive joke. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is if Michael should be repeating the offensive joke once he has been made aware that offends someone he has told it to. Common sense, civility etc would dictate you are a dick if you go around doing so after being requested not to. I don't even particularly like Estelle. I think she has a real victim mentality, but she should not have to be subjected to offensive crap just because someone wants to postulate over it and prove how oh so intellectual they are.
aragon
Well-Known Member
Just what are you saying - that Michael is really a racist and using the "the joke/story" to showcase he racist views and when he leaves BB house he should be arrested for vilification of minorities. I mean really........... My take on the whole thing is Michael was discussing racisim and how when he was 6 he didn't know that the "joke" was racist. Having not seen the whole discussion and just what was said I think people are really quick to make judgement on Michael. Yes Estelle is entitled to be offended by the joke if it was just the joke Michael was saying but in a discussion and used as an example sorry I have to side with Michael. Again if Estelle is offended by the retelling of the story (maybe some of the HM's where no involved in the first discussion) she can remove herself from the discussion. If the discussion is in the lounge room go outside, if in the bedroom go to the lounge but please don't use the excuse that the BB house is too small.
No I'm not saying he is racist but socially inconsiderate. If someone tells you they are offended by something or find something offensive why would you go on to repeat what they found offensive other than if you are being mischievous. Anyway, the crux of it is it is offensive. If you know it is offensive, then arguing for your right to offend needs to have a better basis for it than Michael's, in that he was repeating the same offensive remark after someone said it was offensive.
I guess what annoys me about Michael here is that he agrees it is offensive but is denying Estelle the right to feel offended by it. Just because he has couched it up to appear an educational reason for telling the joke, doesn't mean that in itself is a legitimate reason to cause offensive. In educational institutions they would not be allowed to tell racist jokes that cause offense to make a point, especially if someone has made a complaint about it. His idea that you need to demonstrate why it is offensive by offending is actually false logic. The fact she got offended is a demonstration of why it is unnecessary to use such techniques. Because people like her loose their ability to see the reasoning behind the offense if offended, hence using it as an educational aid becomes nullified. i.e. he is wrong. plain and simple.
I guess what annoys me about Michael here is that he agrees it is offensive but is denying Estelle the right to feel offended by it. Just because he has couched it up to appear an educational reason for telling the joke, doesn't mean that in itself is a legitimate reason to cause offensive. In educational institutions they would not be allowed to tell racist jokes that cause offense to make a point, especially if someone has made a complaint about it. His idea that you need to demonstrate why it is offensive by offending is actually false logic. The fact she got offended is a demonstration of why it is unnecessary to use such techniques. Because people like her loose their ability to see the reasoning behind the offense if offended, hence using it as an educational aid becomes nullified. i.e. he is wrong. plain and simple.
Key is Michael was upset that her saying it was offensive might misconstrue the way he appeared telling it. His whole thing about the context was to justify him telling it. Not because Estelle did anything wrong or that he even thinks she did. He just has to be demeaning and putting her down because his crux is that he's a genius and uses that to lord over everyone. He doesn't like Estelle as she's possibly the next smartest in the house. Unlike the dopes he hangs around with who just agree with him.
S
supermonster
Guest
Did misconstrue.
...that there was a context.
Except that he is specifically annoyed at how she totally missed the point he was making.
To the haters, Michael is always wrong.
He just feels the need to combat Estelle lording it over everyone as the PC princess and casually attributing racism to him by implication. He doesn't seem to like Estelle as she's, whether intentionally or not, possibly the most offensive HM.
She didn't say he was racist. And she didn't miss his reasoning about telling the joke. But let us not forget her point was that he had said it twice now and this is on a tv program. They don't know what is going to air. Her point is pretty valid. Whereas his could be made by not telling the joke you know.
It's not censorship to disapprove.
P
pwta
Guest
Michael - Hide and Seek Champion 2012 lol
Tussie
Active Member
He wasn't telling a joke though was he? He was talking about a joke, the story of what happened and seems to be why this joke is offensive and shouldn't be used. To me, listening to the HM's that say, 'telling offensive jokes is fine, all in good fun' I can see why he'd feel the need to point out why offensive jokes aren't good fun and get a convo going. Without knowing what happened, maybe it was with different groups and thus the reason why it was brought up twice. I think it's far fetched to believe that he went to all that effort just to say a racist joke. Sometimes you have to talk about the nasty to see why it's really nasty. I think if Estelle was as bright as everyone seem to think she is, she would've sussed that out. After all, he was agreeing with her it was offensive. So really she should've sussed why he was telling the story and seen he wasn't being offensive, he was talking about being offensive. Thus the reason why I don't think she's as bright as some like to think. But until we see what actually happened and was said, everyone is speculating inculding me on who did what and said what and the why. The fact is, we really don't know.