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Michael's joke?

supermonster said:
It is entirely mischaracterising the matter to describe it as "telling a racist joke". He's using a racist joke as an example to make a point about racism. There's a considerable difference. Estelle seems more interested in walking on moral high ground than listening to what people are actually saying.
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So if I said, "Michael told a racist joke as part of a story." That's fine? But If I say, "when michael told that racist joke."

It's all just stupid semantics by the haters trying to pretend she was implying what Michael was worried about how he looked. Which is his own issue and there is zero to indicate that it was ever her intention.
 
Michael was bringing the joke up a lot. Estelle was just saying how she didn't like it and not to bring up again. Michael made a big deal.
 
Michael did not 'bring it up a lot'. After Estelle's 'you've told that joke already Michael, it's not funny' it was not brought up again in a public forum until dinner that night when one of the other housemates submitted the question 'do you find offensive jokes funny'

It is entirely mischaracterising the matter to describe it as "telling a racist joke". He's using a racist joke as an example to make a point about racism. There's a considerable difference. Estelle seems more interested in walking on moral high ground than listening to what people are actually saying.
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Which was made all the more obvious by her blank stare when Michael finished explaining himself at the dinner table, she either did not understand at all what he was saying or she was lost for words for being caught out trying to put Michael down.
 
up_all_night said:
I swear some people are in fantasy land who just make up what is happening?

He said the joke while telling a story and she disagreed it needed repeating.

Then it came up as part of a dinner discussion topic.

Where the fuck is she repeatedly telling Michael to stop saying the same joke?

He said the joke. She said she didn't like it. People brought up when racist jokes are appropriate. She said she didn't think it was appropriate the situation he told the joke.

HOW IS THIS REPEATEDLY complaining? Geez talk about misrepresentation.


Also how the do people not understand whether you tell a joke as part of a story or just simply for the jokes sake. It is still TELLING the joke?

It's the base level of jumping up and down nit picky on words when the argument being made holds no grounds.
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Just because you're an Estelle fan GEEEESH take off your ROSE coloured glasses....

I just rewatched it and Estelle's EXACT WORDS ARE.... "Michael you've told that joke twice now & it wasn't funny the first time" (This was in the lounge room)
Then at the dinner she said "Micheal today when he was telling a joke, that was..."
Josh then says "He wasn't telling a joke he was retelling a story about a time he was told a joke, just to clarify it"

She complained about it in the lounge room & made it a discussion topic for dinner and said it again - that is REPEATEDLY lol
The video doesn't lie - not like some who want to Estelle not to be evicted ;)
 
Poxy said:
Its called mind blindness & is associated with autism. Its the inability to comprehend other peoples state of mind and hence their intentions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-blindness


Delayed emotional development is another psych symptom.

Estelle is not mentally ill but has a few indications. Others interpret this as being weird.
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Did you know. Passive Aggressive behaviour is considered a personality-disorder...
 
Where was it said it was her discussion topic?

Complaining about someone that they've joke a couple times does not equal repeatedly complaining.
 
ichi said:
Michael did not 'bring it up a lot'. After Estelle's 'you've told that joke already Michael, it's not funny' it was not brought up again in a public forum until dinner that night when one of the other housemates submitted the question 'do you find offensive jokes funny'



Which was made all the more obvious by her blank stare when Michael finished explaining himself at the dinner table, she either did not understand at all what he was saying or she was lost for words for being caught out trying to put Michael down.
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The reason she had a blank stare was because Michael was trying to twist things around and his argument lacked logic.
Estelle was saying to make the point you don't have to keep telling the racist joke - obviously it's been told before, in whatever context, possibly the same as they do complain stories are retold. So to say "I heard you say the offensive part before I don't really don't to have to hear it again for you to make your point" is perfectly valid.
From the 3 times before part it does seem Michael keeps bringing it up.
 
indego said:
You’re a prime example of why no one can discuss what racism actually is, and what actually causes the tension to develop between ethnic groups. I use one generic description of my own skin colour and suddenly I’m subconsciously racism and hold a superiority complex?
Yes, I’m white. My skin is so damned pasty it nearly glows in the dark. Because I have English, Irish, French, German, and Russian heritage… Which has left me with very pale skin that is referred to as white, and on a side note refuses to tan and sun burns like a bitch.
I thought separating race and culture made it clear that I view race as genetics, and culture as our behaviour and who we actually are.

I do feel that being able to use words to identify what aspect of a person we’re talking about is important. There are some incredibly stupid people who will hate anyone who look Chinese, even if their family has been in Australia for 4 generations, and have an Australian culture. There are people who are stupid and fear different religious views, or get upset when they see someone wearing something different, talk a different language, or eat different food.
Then there are all the Aussie who hate people from New Zealand just because they’re from New Zealand and vice versa.

Each of these examples is racism, however they all need to be handled differently. So yes. We NEED to be able to use our language to define what the racism in question is before we can actually address it in any meaningful way.


As of race not being a concept has no scientific basis, it’s the word used in Australian legislation, and has been defined as colour, descent or ancestry, nationality or national origin, ethnicity or ethnic origin.
Google the Equal Opportunity Act 2010, download the PDF and go to page 23. That’s why I use it, and that’s why it’s commonly accepted that when it’s used within the Australian vernacular, it’s not referring to a scientific principle.
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Look if being 'white' and recognised as such means that much to you, knock yourself out.

Personally I don't feel my physical appearance, something that I had not control over, defines me in any shape or form as a human being.

To each their own I guess.
 
Estelle is lowering Michael into the gutter, but Michael should know better.

Kind of what some posters try to do here.

Poster A: I think blah blah blah.

Poster B: You're wrong.

Anyone who tells another poster that they're 'wrong' is an impolite egoist idiot, never lower yourself to them. Never feel the need to justify yourself to that kind of dialogue. Tolerance and discussion is not their strong suit, here or anywhere.
 
Thing said:
re·peat·ed·ly (r -p t d-l ). adv. More than once;

Its in the dictionary ;)
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In the discussion about racist jokes, Estelle simply brought up the feelings from earlier. If that can't be discussed than no one learns or grows. It also doesn't count as her saying it.
 
up_all_night said:
I don't think you can really be right or wrong with something like this. However I clearly don't at all see where Estelle was trying to implicate him at all? There was nothing to admit she was wrong about. She doesn't think it's appropriate. It's a different of opinion and one with no specific answer.

Considering all house mates do is complain about her behavior, down to what she puts in her hair. Yet she can't mention she doesn't like racist jokes?
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totally agree.

on the one hand, i disagree with estelle - as long as a joke is told without malice, i don't think there should be boundaries on humour.

that said, I don't believe that a joke teller is automagically immune from the consequences of their intended humour. that might be as mild as no one laughing, it might be the slightly stronger turning of backs in disgust, or it might be the full on offended and counter-attacking.

if you're big enough to tell the joke, michael, even if it's in a non-malicious context, you have to be big enough to take the backlash if it offends someone. you can choose to let that influence whether you tell that joke again in the future - or not.

with great freedom, comes great responsibility - but adult ideas come slow to michael
 
Well... I'm very uncomfortable with the whole 'PC is limiting and bad' attitude. I really don't like that people can be reduced to a stereotype because of their ethnicity, religion, sexuality, region.

Of course, most of us will see a joke based on **** (insert stereotype here) as just a joke; but for some, it becomes a reason to belittle, to ignore, to ridicule and to exclude.

Let's just think about what we value in ourselves and in each other. Do I care if someone's Irish, Vietnamese, Jewish, Moslem, Black, Gay or Liberal? Well, it depends on what they are like as people. It depends on the individual.
 
up_all_night said:
In the discussion about racist jokes, Estelle simply brought up the feelings from earlier. If that can't be discussed than no one learns or grows. It also doesn't count as her saying it.
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???? Of course it does...
 
up_all_night said:
It's all just stupid semantics by the haters trying to pretend she was implying what Michael was worried about how he looked. Which is his own issue and there is zero to indicate that it was ever her intention.
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It's not about what she tried to imply. It's about how she was only concerned to saddle up the high horse of political correctness. I don't think she really cared whether she was damning Michael in the process.

It's not just a matter of semantics. It's about filleting someone else's words to suit an agenda. It's about someone ignoring the semantics of someone's speech to overlay another meaning. Once again Estelle tries to talk over someone.
 
Connoisseur said:
Personally I don't feel my physical appearance, something that I had not control over, defines me in any shape or form as a human being.
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I am going to guess you are of a white/caucasian appearance? You only feel that way because you never have been defined by your physical appearance. It's called white privilege.

I was honestly cringing when they were talking about offensive jokes and the like. I doubt any of them are capable of handling issues like racism/sexism/homophobia in an intelligent and informed manner. Zoe started saying something like "oh my mates and I might make a few jokes but it's all in good fun" etc, probably suggesting she makes racist jokes aplenty but it's okay (by her) because it's all in jest. I was reminded of when we were first introduced to her on the show and she was talking about boat people/immigrants being bad or something and I was pretty amazed.

I don't have time for people who complain about people being "too PC" about race-based jokes or similar. I'm a white female. My race/skin colour has never been and I will never be subject to persecution, judgement or discrimination based on my heritage. I don't ever joke about race simply because it's not my place to joke about race. As a woman, I might feel comfortable making a joke that uses the word slut, or bitch, or c***. Because they're gender specific insults that women are often subjected to. Just like an african american could say n*****, or a gay man could say f*****. But I would never use those words because it's simply not my place. I just don't see why I or anyone else should feel entitled to be able to tell jokes that are offensive or borderline offensive to other people for some ridiculous "I should be able to joke about whatever I want" reasoning.
 
alien-she

Answer me this.

I follow Rugby League.

During one game, an aborginal player called a caucasian a white c*nt, the player responded that he was a black c*nt.

The aborginal player complained after the game & the caucasian player was called before a board to explain his racist remark.

The aborginal player wasn't called before the board.

So why was the caucasian player treated differently.
 
yr all wierd im insanely good looking I have no medical dramas I have been shot twice and I have never neen on big brother

fuck are you ok?
 
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