"Estelle is just being herself" Really?

[Poona]

Barbie has gone. Now who has replaced Estelle?

Looks like Avril Lavigne. Estelle reminds me a bit like Eve Morey (sonya Mitchell on Neighbours) though.

 

[3Jane]

Thanks Poona. I had no idea what Avril looks like.

 

[supermonster]

I also find it annoying some people are unwilling to discuss. Ok, I have a opinion that is different. Don't attack me calling me names saying I am completely wrong. With out adding anything to support that and back it up. It's like when I had fun doing a psychopath checklist against Ben (people took that so seriously, it was kind of funny). I went through the list and rational on the forum. Where I was making assumptions and why I was justifying my answers. I got endless shit about it. Called all sorts of names. Yet not a single person responded to my rationale. Went through my answers to the checklist and said one of my responses was wrong and why. It was just, "You're an idiot, you're wrong." They added nothing. You can't have adult discussions like that.

This is grossly hypocritical and ignorant. You couldn't have been paying attention if you didn't notice direct responses to the points you were trying to make. There was no evident sense of fun about those posts. No detectable irony. You simply came out in full character assassination mode in a way that makes anything said against Estelle pale by comparison.

If Ben said anything that contradicted your check list presumption then it was taken as lying and evidence of deceit. And then the supposed deceit was used as evidence in support of the check list. But when this was pointed out you seriously kept trying to defend it without any rational argument.

By all means, use a psychological check list as a hammer to bash a disfavoured HM but don't try to come across with all this fake piety and innocence about it and all this confected umbrage about personal abuse. I guess I can see why you're an Estelle fan.

You would have to be one of the worst examples on this forum of ignoring discussion and levelling personal abuse at those who disagree. For you, forum members who don't agree with you about Estelle are somehow morally inferior. Are you going to tell us you're just joking about that now?

 

[la`cat]

I think a lot of Estelle haters flat out refuse to empathize with Estelle..that or they simply don't know how to.
So unfortunately the very logical things you have said will go over their heads and you will be fed with predictably apathetic responses.

Which I think is a show of the poster's immaturity rather Estelle.
Everyone seems to think they are always right, but would be surprised to know how others feel about them. Angie is showing she asks now..... a sigh of personal growth and a sign of maturing beyond her 21 years. Estelle, to me, is showing the same growth.
The posters who rant and rave.........

 

[supermonster]

Is it really that hard for you anti-Estellites to put yourself in her shoes and try to understand what it might feel like to be her.. a bit confused, the big-brother experience not quite working out how she thought it would, not sure of who she is, trying to fit in but coming off as awkward every time, trying to be supportive but getting shut down, trying to bide her time in the house in her own quirky way and then being ostracised for it, and people being mean to her when she hasnt been mean to anyone.

The difference with those of us who are not Estelle fans is that we see how some of the pushy, try-hard business and the woe-is-me line have put HMs off side early on and that her method of adapting to her social difficulty has made it difficult to integrate. They haven't been getting her and there are reasons why.

The problem with Estelle fandom is that it often seems to express itself by avoiding any discussion of her faults to the extent that it becomes necessary to cast other HMs as somehow motivated by cruelty for it's own sake. They have to be made out to be picking on Estelle for no rational reason.

There's also a lack of perspective about the criticism of Estelle. If you want to see extreme expressions of hatred and vilification of a HM, go visit an anti-Ben thread. There are forum members delighting in the idea of physically bashing him and causing permanent injury.

oh sorry i meant hit him so hard I rattled his brain he lost consciousness and then had ongoing problems

 

[Dorsal]

Stella is maturing like a fine wine the longer she stays in the house.

 

[up_all_night]

Does anyone else find Estelle not being woe is me? That posters seem to confuse discussions on here about it being difficult for her in the house. With what she is saying and doing?

 

[Evolution]

The difference with those of us who are not Estelle fans is that we see how some of the pushy, try-hard business and the woe-is-me line have put HMs off side early on and that her method of adapting to her social difficulty has made it difficult to integrate. They haven't been getting her and there are reasons why.

The problem with Estelle fandom is that it often seems to express itself by avoiding any discussion of her faults to the extent that it becomes necessary to cast other HMs as somehow motivated by cruelty for it's own sake. They have to be made out to be picking on Estelle for no rational reason.

There's also a lack of perspective about the criticism of Estelle. If you want to see extreme expressions of hatred and vilification of a HM, go visit an anti-Ben thread. There are forum members delighting in the idea of physically bashing him and causing permanent injury.

Another excellent yet simple post. Points made clear and consise, which no doubt will be absolutely ignored by the Estelle fans. I too find its so funny how the EFs cannot listen to common sense re their hero, LOL

Also, if what you said about the Ben threads is true (& I have reason to doubt you), then that really is outrageous!! I hope the Admin team here are actually doing their job, and not just letting things slide bc they may agree with it.

 

[up_all_night]

This is grossly hypocritical and ignorant. You couldn't have been paying attention if you didn't notice direct responses to the points you were trying to make. There was no evident sense of fun about those posts. No detectable irony. You simply came out in full character assassination mode in a way that makes anything said against Estelle pale by comparison.

If Ben said anything that contradicted your check list presumption then it was taken as lying and evidence of deceit. And then the supposed deceit was used as evidence in support of the check list. But when this was pointed out you seriously kept trying to defend it without any rational argument.

By all means, use a psychological check list as a hammer to bash a disfavoured HM but don't try to come across with all this fake piety and innocence about it and all this confected umbrage about personal abuse. I guess I can see why you're an Estelle fan.

You would have to be one of the worst examples on this forum of ignoring discussion and leveling personal abuse at those who disagree. For you, forum members who don't agree with you about Estelle are somehow morally inferior. Are you going to tell us you're just joking about that now?

It wasn't there to bash him or to character assassinate. I quite enjoy Ben in the house and have said many positive things about him on the forum. It was there as part of an attempt for an adult discussion about the much perceived bullying in the house. This is the problem you can't rationale discuss anything possibly negative with out people flipping out that someone said something possibly bad about their favorite house mate and taking it personally. Now because people reacted so badly to the suggestion of bullying you can barely even bring it up on the forum with out a shit storm.

The only response which you're talking about was people point to one side of Ben's behavior which was completely inline with the psychopath hypothesis. So it wasn't a rebuttal at all, it wasn't pointing out anything contradictory to the original hypothesis. It wasn't even questioning my rational. Which was the problem. People were willing to go off the rails attacking me for the suggestion with out even reading it. With out even understanding what a work place psychopath or workplace bullying was. With out even seeing their so called rebuttal of, "but Ben said something nice" was in no way contradictory to what I had said. I guess it's my mistake for using proper terms, and not understanding some people can only perceive "psychopath" as meaning Hannibal Lector. The only decent response was someone who replied saying they were married to a psychopath and they didn't think Ben was one. I was respectful to her opinion.

Even just look at the tone in your reply. So vicious and ugly. Also it's strange that it's so framed around the fact I have supported Estelle at times on this forum. What's all that about? Also I think you'll find I have basically not leveled any personal abuse at posters on this forum. Just at their posts. Something unfortunately you can not say. So please don't make such accusations about me, trying to sink me to your level. There that's about the most personal attack i've made.

 

[Connoisseur]

I'm neither a fan or a hater of Estelle and in my opinion UAN is version of events is closest to reality.

The girl is in the house all by herself with no real support to confide in. She's done well to sustain the constant barrage of direct/indirect abuse/bullying she has copped from different housemates all because she's basically a 'loner'/independent and thereby an easy target.

She may act 'oddly' in certain people's eyes but I cannot see how that justifies treating her like a piece of shit. It's this kind of attitude that frightens me about Estelle 'haters'. They lack the ability to display any sympathy/empathy for what she's going through but I really shouldn't be surprised since they are fans of housemates who eagerly indulge in that type of malicious conduct.

It figures that they should look down on Estelle with such utter disdain and hatred as they're cut from the same Ben/michael cloth.

 

[CaspersMum]

This is grossly hypocritical and ignorant. You couldn't have been paying attention if you didn't notice direct responses to the points you were trying to make. There was no evident sense of fun about those posts. No detectable irony. You simply came out in full character assassination mode in a way that makes anything said against Estelle pale by comparison.

If Ben said anything that contradicted your check list presumption then it was taken as lying and evidence of deceit. And then the supposed deceit was used as evidence in support of the check list. But when this was pointed out you seriously kept trying to defend it without any rational argument.

By all means, use a psychological check list as a hammer to bash a disfavoured HM but don't try to come across with all this fake piety and innocence about it and all this confected umbrage about personal abuse. I guess I can see why you're an Estelle fan.

You would have to be one of the worst examples on this forum of ignoring discussion and levelling personal abuse at those who disagree. For you, forum members who don't agree with you about Estelle are somehow morally inferior. Are you going to tell us you're just joking about that now?

Agree with every single word, SuperMonster.

 

[up_all_night]

Agree with every single word, SuperMonster. Nice to see the back peddalling from good old uan though.

No back peddling at all. People just went insane with a straw man version of what I said. Then treated that as the reality. I've spent most of the time on here trying to set the record straight about what I was saying.

 

[Hellzbellz]

Yep, fair enough. I catch ya drift.

In fact I'm always being attacked as a person as opposed to people debating why they disagree with my views in an adult and respectful manner. So yeah, I totally getcha there. I've stopped reading posts by certain trolls and it's amazing how they drop off when you stop reading and responding to their abusive posts.

There's a few people who are quite bad. I just sometimes bait them back with joke comments that they often don't understand. There's just no point taking some people seriously. When you're discussing something like a house mate and they deny the contents of direct quotes from the house mate. Then give you a personal insult. It's tempting to get into it. However I am trying to not do that any more.

I also find it annoying some people are unwilling to discuss. Ok, I have a opinion that is different. Don't attack me calling me names saying I am completely wrong. With out adding anything to support that and back it up. It's like when I had fun doing a psychopath checklist against Ben (people took that so seriously, it was kind of funny). I went through the list and rational on the forum. Where I was making assumptions and why I was justifying my answers. I got endless shit about it. Called all sorts of names. Yet not a single person responded to my rationale. Went through my answers to the checklist and said one of my responses was wrong and why. It was just, "You're an idiot, you're wrong." They added nothing. You can't have adult discussions like that.

People just reacted strongly and emotionally to an opinion they couldn't discuss and just attacked.

 

[Hellzbellz]

I know the feelin'! It's like beating your head against a brick wall sometimes I'm afraid. That's why I just decided to set the record straight concerning my views, admitting where I've made mistakes and staying true to what I do believe then LEAVING the thread. There is only so much you can say or do, if people aren't willing to be reasonable, I just drop that thread now. It seems to work, the trolls probably find some other poor bastard to pick on though I guess.

I even had someone throw smart-ass comments at me for editing my posts. She didn't kindly ask me why I edit them 2 seconds after posting them. No, that would be too decent. I'm playing on an ancient laptop that frezzes and that has jammed keys, plus I'd prefer to make the post as legible as possible. But nope, I just copped abuse without even a thought as to why I might feel the need to edit. Urghh, it's bloody annoying.

No back peddling at all. People just went insane with a straw man version of what I said. Then treated that as the reality. I've spent most of the time on here trying to set the record straight about what I was saying.

 

[Morbo]

The difference with those of us who are not Estelle fans is that we see how some of the pushy, try-hard business and the woe-is-me line have put HMs off side early on and that her method of adapting to her social difficulty has made it difficult to integrate. They haven't been getting her and there are reasons why.

The problem with Estelle fandom is that it often seems to express itself by avoiding any discussion of her faults to the extent that it becomes necessary to cast other HMs as somehow motivated by cruelty for it's own sake. They have to be made out to be picking on Estelle for no rational reason.

There's also a lack of perspective about the criticism of Estelle. If you want to see extreme expressions of hatred and vilification of a HM, go visit an anti-Ben thread. There are forum members delighting in the idea of physically bashing him and causing permanent injury.

Thats true, not everybody gets along with everybody.. and in the house theyre not showing us the exact footage so its hard, for me anyway to have a proper opinion. I disagree about the 'woe is me' stuff though because all ive seen to do with that is paraphrasing by other housemates, so we might just be seeing their skewed opinion. But whatever.

Either way, i like estelle and enjoy watching her on the show no matter what people say. Just like i dont care who anybody else likes watching

 

[Hellzbellz]

I'm with you CrazyDutchWoman...plus I fucking love your avatar! What a giggle.

So ridiculous. Al the personal attacks by the Estelle fans. So if I am not a fan of Estelle I must hate her? No I don't. She is just not my cup of tea.

 

[Hellzbellz]

Well said.

This is grossly hypocritical and ignorant. You couldn't have been paying attention if you didn't notice direct responses to the points you were trying to make. There was no evident sense of fun about those posts. No detectable irony. You simply came out in full character assassination mode in a way that makes anything said against Estelle pale by comparison.

If Ben said anything that contradicted your check list presumption then it was taken as lying and evidence of deceit. And then the supposed deceit was used as evidence in support of the check list. But when this was pointed out you seriously kept trying to defend it without any rational argument.

By all means, use a psychological check list as a hammer to bash a disfavoured HM but don't try to come across with all this fake piety and innocence about it and all this confected umbrage about personal abuse. I guess I can see why you're an Estelle fan.

You would have to be one of the worst examples on this forum of ignoring discussion and levelling personal abuse at those who disagree. For you, forum members who don't agree with you about Estelle are somehow morally inferior. Are you going to tell us you're just joking about that now?

 

[Hellzbellz]

Is it just me or does this emoticon- , which I use often mind you, remind you of Estelle smiling?!

 

[Wormow]

Lately, especially this episode and the recent few, I've noticed Estelle returning to the "Estelle" we saw the first few weeks.

 

[ichi]

Is it just me or does this emoticon- , which I use often mind you, remind you of Estelle smiling?!

Nah the icon is 100% hotter