BBUSA: All Stars 2 on CBS

Brekkie

Moderator
Staff member
Agree - both formats have their merits and despite deviating from the original format completely in the first series I do think the US format has actually remained truer to the shows origins.

They've continued to provide multiple live feeds, something most international versions with the traditional format have scaled back on or scrapped completely. There is also a clear process of nominations and evictions which is allowed to take it's course - yes, there is the odd twist along the way but they usually come across as twists which are won or earned by the players, not conveniently timed to advantage the producers favourites. As much as we criticised Grodner especially I do think they still largely respect both the players and the audience, something that clearly couldn't be said for the BBUK producers in it's C5 years.


I'd love to see a UK version of the HoH format, whether that's the US format or something like the Brazilian hybrid where viewers still get a say in evictions. However the reality is it's the original format which would give it the best chance of success, but agree with Kingston both formats are showing their age and although the franchise has been successful at reviving the format in numerous countries in the last few years it has been a long time since they bought a successful new twist to the format.
 

Kingston

Canadian Royality
Agree - both formats have their merits and despite deviating from the original format completely in the first series I do think the US format has actually remained truer to the shows origins.

They've continued to provide multiple live feeds, something most international versions with the traditional format have scaled back on or scrapped completely. There is also a clear process of nominations and evictions which is allowed to take it's course - yes, there is the odd twist along the way but they usually come across as twists which are won or earned by the players, not conveniently timed to advantage the producers favourites. As much as we criticised Grodner especially I do think they still largely respect both the players and the audience, something that clearly couldn't be said for the BBUK producers in it's C5 years.


I'd love to see a UK version of the HoH format, whether that's the US format or something like the Brazilian hybrid where viewers still get a say in evictions. However the reality is it's the original format which would give it the best chance of success, but agree with Kingston both formats are showing their age and although the franchise has been successful at reviving the format in numerous countries in the last few years it has been a long time since they bought a successful new twist to the format.
I think the UK format still has some legs provided it returns to Channel 4... The only reason I’ve suggested a hybrid format for Australia is that it felt like a natural progression. As I said above they’d essentially had some form of lite hybrid elements already so it only makes sense to go all in.

It also made sense in that they’ve had long periods between the series... The Channel 5 series while technically a revival was more of just a poorly executed continuation of the Channel 4 series. A third revival in that sense doesn’t carry the same weight it would as reviving the same show a third time in Australia.
 

Zcsund1234

Well-Known Member
Well I finished BB22. And wow, that was dissapointing. Of all 22 (excluding BB1 and including BBOTT) seasons that I have watched now there was only one where I had a break in the middle of watching it and that was BB22.... What a disappointment that was. Firstly the cast was not as great as it could have been. I understand COVID made it hard to get the people that really should have been on, especially Danielle Reyes (who in my mind is a fantastic player and I am really personally disappointed she declined but can understand why). Rachel Riley being pregnant is also really upsetting and is a major loss, same with Vanessa. Josh not being as well as Hayden really disappointed, having Nicole and Ian as the two winner representatives is so meh to me. Where was Britney from BB12? Where was Donny from BB16? Where was Brett from BB20? But also I can understand why people like Derrick, Will and Dr Will would decline, they simply have nothing to prove. But to have questionable picks like Bayleigh? David? Memphis? Like these people are either not good players or simply not great television. I was really disappointed in Keesha being the first boot, but she didn't provide much entrainment wise and may I add Cody saying he doesn't know who she is was a deep concern as that would mean he hasn't seen BB10 or even know of Dan Gheesling's BB10 win, and also just in general wouldn't know the Keesha's birthday situation. Seeing Janelle go so early was inevitable but also truly devastating, which was just made even worse that she literally lost the HOH comp by 1 second. When she left the season died and all interest I had in it faded. Da'Vonne is someone I wish was better at the game of Big Brother as I really enjoy her as a character. Tyler disappointed me, he like Danielle Reyes in BB7 both played mediocre games their second time after being labeled one of the best to never win. Dani is what the biggest disappointment was for me. Who is Dani Briones and what tf happened to Daniele Donato? I will admit tho I would have loved to have seen her stay rather than go in the triple, it would have been really fun to see her and Nicole on the block together for a whole week and watch her attempt to blow up Nicole's game and stay. She dug herself the hole extremely early on by going against Tyler foolishly. I really like all members of the final 3 however. I for one will never understand the hostility and abuse Nicole Franzel receives from the online BB community. I can acknowledge the frustration of her gameplay being lacklustre in early weeks as all she does is lay in bed, but she isn't a terrible human that deserves to be spat on? I don't have any access to the live feeds so I must not know something that everyone else does? I am aware of the treatment of Ian from several houseguests but I really just do not for the life of me understand the hatred for this woman? To go from a former fan favourite to then winner to then 2nd runner-up is pretty impressive if you ask me. Whilst I love Janelle I would personally argue Nicole did a much better job at keeping her cool with the rivalry between the 2. Enzo is a fun character and even a really good player. Being one of the 5 people to make it to finale night twice is no easy feat and I would say he deserves a lot more credit than he received from the jury. Cody played masterfully well, despite him not being the most entertaining character. His social game wasn't as strong as it was in BB16, but he dominated strategically the entire way through where every single vote literally went the way he wanted, his strategic gameplay was almost unfaultable as I cannot personally identify one mistake he made along the course of the season. Whilst I don't particularly love him I can easily admit it was a win well deserved. It's a shame BB22 sucked as much as it did, because I really enjoyed binging BBUS and have grown attached to many of the houseguests (Dani Donato was once a top member of this list and now that is up for debate). I think now the show has shown its obvious signs of ageing, and the contestants have now worked out that if you put a huge group of people together and win all the challenges you can pretty much win the entire game. The strategy has become so non eventful, people vote with the house as per the HOH's wishes and alliances are huge in size and last way too long. It is so strange how a show like Survivor can do the complete opposite in terms of development in 20 years. Survivor has less bitter juries, contestants switch their votes whenever they feel necessary and there is a lot less emphasis on winning challenges. BB is the complete reverse where new school seasons have bitter juries and there is now a more huge emphasis on comp wins particularly at the end of the season. I hope BB22 marks an end of the rather predictable era of BB that fans have endured since BB16 created this style of play.
 

Kingston

Canadian Royality
That was a lot to take in. I can only comment on one thing really... Nicole is the Taylor Swift of BB. While I don’t believe fans need to attack her and carry on in the toxic way they do, the dislike I feel is justified. Her negative and privileged attitude gets her a lot of haters. As for the Janelle situation any BB fan should know if you come for her she’s going to lash out. That said while the tactics were different the reactions were equal. Nicole is just a lot more underhanded in her approach.
 

Kingston

Canadian Royality
In terms of how to “fix” the current state of BB I think a lot of the current issues can be addressed in casting. Addressing diversity is a good start and selecting a wider array of HG’s from different backgrounds. From what I understand there’s a lot of coaching that goes on throughout the process... Like HG’s are required to watch previous seasons, asked questions about older players and strategies, and are cast to fit a specific role in the cast. One of the issues is I think a lot of potential HG’s focus in on the most recent series and adapt their strategy along those lines. I think asking HG’s to watch at least one of the earlier (BB2 to BB10) series would do some good in encouraging more independence within the game. The in house coaching also needs to change... With either production taking more of a hands off approach or adapting the type of coaching given. Lastly making sure the HG’s all understand they don’t have to follow HoH. HoH is ONLY responsible for nominating and breaking a tie that’s it.
 

Brekkie

Moderator
Staff member
It would help so much if they strongly encourage the HoH to put up two people they want out, rather than a target and a pawn (or two pawns and a backdoor plan) so there is a genuine chance for the others to consider who is better for their game, and for the HoH not to particularly care who goes.

Agree watching an early season rather than a later one would be better. Certainly don't get them watching any season which begins with an 8 person alliance - that makes for rather dull viewing.
 

Kingston

Canadian Royality
It would help so much if they strongly encourage the HoH to put up two people they want out, rather than a target and a pawn (or two pawns and a backdoor plan) so there is a genuine chance for the others to consider who is better for their game, and for the HoH not to particularly care who goes.

Agree watching an early season rather than a later one would be better. Certainly don't get them watching any season which begins with an 8 person alliance - that makes for rather dull viewing.
Agreed. I think closing the backdoor is the most ideal way of accomplishing that. That said I don’t think reforming POV can be accomplished. Ideally they’d eliminate it for the front half of the game, introduce a permanent third nominee, and have the nominees complete for safety. POV and traditional nominations resume in the latter game. They have a few different options on how to implement the third nominee.
 
Last edited:

Brekkie

Moderator
Staff member
I like the idea of viewers choosing the Veto replacement so if it is used it is almost a lottery. Indeed I've always kind of though a "Veto Vault" twist would work well where each week how the veto plays out depends on the Veto selected from the vault.
 

Kingston

Canadian Royality
I like the idea of viewers choosing the Veto replacement so if it is used it is almost a lottery. Indeed I've always kind of though a "Veto Vault" twist would work well where each week how the veto plays out depends on the Veto selected from the vault.
I think this would make a great twist but I can't see it being a widely embraced permanent change to the format. At very least not for the traditional American format. I think right now they really need to re-focus around consistency and ways they can refresh the format without throwing a bunch of random powers in to the game.
 

Brekkie

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, the Vault idea would work better in Canada.

I've always said the Veto would be the main way to refresh the show - from it's introduction in season 3 through to season 7 they made small changes to how it worked each year, but since then it's been exactly the same and IMO is often too dominant in the game.
 

Zcsund1234

Well-Known Member
In terms of how to “fix” the current state of BB I think a lot of the current issues can be addressed in casting. Addressing diversity is a good start and selecting a wider array of HG’s from different backgrounds. From what I understand there’s a lot of coaching that goes on throughout the process... Like HG’s are required to watch previous seasons, asked questions about older players and strategies, and are cast to fit a specific role in the cast. One of the issues is I think a lot of potential HG’s focus in on the most recent series and adapt their strategy along those lines. I think asking HG’s to watch at least one of the earlier (BB2 to BB10) series would do some good in encouraging more independence within the game. The in house coaching also needs to change... With either production taking more of a hands off approach or adapting the type of coaching given. Lastly making sure the HG’s all understand they don’t have to follow HoH. HoH is ONLY responsible for nominating and breaking a tie that’s it.

I agree with everything you have written. I'd like more emphasis to placed on houseguests being allowed to play their own game rather than following the HOH. Interesting to hear watching a past season is a requirement, I would definitely agree that asking them to watch an older school strategy would do the show better. If houseguests are to inspire their strategies from previous players I'd like to see some watch Will's ability to manipulate, Danielle hiding a secret ally, Jun and Alison creating the floater strategy and acknowledging they are each others best best to beat despite their dislike of one another. I would also like houseguests to see how Nakomis essentially invented the backdoor strategy and hopefully inspire houseguests to develop their own unique loophole than can lead them to an astute victory. Seeing the back of 8 person alliances is something I really hope comes from BB23. I really enjoyed watching Danielle and Jason discreetly plot together in BB3 much more than literally 8 seasons in a row of the same type of group forming in week one over and over and over again.

Yes, the Vault idea would work better in Canada.

I've always said the Veto would be the main way to refresh the show - from it's introduction in season 3 through to season 7 they made small changes to how it worked each year, but since then it's been exactly the same and IMO is often too dominant in the game.

I too agree the veto needs a refresh. Having the viewers vote for the veto recipient or even having some sort of interference with the challenge would assist the underdog which would be more compelling viewing than a random draw winning the veto and not using it because the HOH told them not to. Seeing the same thing used for the past 15 years is so mundane now, I wish they had used the diamond POV or something to that extent more often. Dan's Funeral was a fun way of using the POV to his advantage without winning it, however how often are players that skilled where they can achieve such a feat? Watching Janelle win veto after veto was fun in all stars, but watching Kaycee win the veto again and again in BB20 just made the end game so much more predictable and slow when the remnants of the dominant alliance maintain power even until the finale. And even so I think one of my bigger issues with the show is it's length. 99 days of gameplay is far too bloated. I am very happy BB22 was shortened but the triple wasn't an amazing substitute for an extra week. I'd prefer there be 2 doubles in a season over 75ish days. It makes the end game go quicker with less fatigue setting in once one alliance has pagonged the other away.
 

Brekkie

Moderator
Staff member
I think with the show in real time having generally having the week done with the Veto ceremony on the Monday morning before the Thursday night eviction doesn't help either. I do think the US format could sustain having two eviction cycles a week, adding an extra episode but having a shorter run - especially as for the last few years the competition on the Sunday show before the nominations just feels like it's there to fill the airtime rather than progress the game.

It would probably mean the show runs for about 8 weeks rather than 13-14, as I don't think more than 16 contestants would be wise, but I think the show would benefit hugely from just speeding up proceedings. Obviously means a tighter turnaround for production but they managed it for the shorter Celebrity Big Brother so it is possible.


As for BB22 and the Triple was just done to fill two hours with little thought to the rest of the season as if left the show feeling light on houseguests in the final weeks and kind of killed what little momentum it had for it. I said at the time the triple should have been done as a way to have one houseguest return to the house by having the three evictees compete in a battle back - similar to what BB Canada did with their "fake double eviction". Another double eviction a couple of weeks later would then have sorted out numbers.
 
Top