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Episode BBAU 2022 - Episode 27 Discussion (5 July, 7:30pm)

Estelle.Landy said:
That doesn’t change anything. If he was sincere his dialogue would completely match. It doesn’t.

Same with Ben. You cannot in one hand apologise and then in the other blame. It makes no sense.
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Ben was probably also looking for a bit of redemption from the viewers who have long memories. Whether he likes it or not a lot of people *do* remember him as a bully - even if you didn’t use that term to describe him. It’s obviously great that you guys have put your differences to rest but he did give two different takes on your dynamic in his own podcasts that he controls 🤷‍♂️
 
MattyOj said:
Ben was probably also looking for a bit of redemption from the viewers who have long memories. Whether he likes it or not a lot of people *do* remember him as a bully - even if you didn’t use that term to describe him. It’s obviously great that you guys have put your differences to rest but he did give two different takes on your dynamic in his own podcasts that he controls 🤷‍♂️
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Also I dont know if you noticed the lack of questions that would be uplifting… many I felt I did not even want to answer but was trying to rise above anyway..

Even the weird question about vaccines.. the commentary on layla and of course him talking about me “playing the victim”…

I could say alot more but i wont.
 
bleachy_dude said:
Edited to add: I don’t think either of them have made out that you were the sole problem as @MattyOj said in the post you quoted. They’ve both admitted and apologised for their actions.
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I’m not shit stirring. I listened to the two podcasts back to back. Ben tells Tim that he felt Tim took his place as the person Estelle has an unfair grievance with. I will listen to it again later and get the direct quotes.
 
Estelle.Landy said:
Also I dont know if you noticed the lack of questions that would be uplifting… many I felt I did not even want to answer but was trying to rise above anyway..

Even the weird question about vaccines.. the commentary on layla and of course him talking about me “playing the victim”…

I could say alot more but i wont.
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Ok I’m glad you DID hear the same things I did! The tone was completely different.
 
MattyOj said:
I’m not shit stirring. I listened to the two podcasts back to back. Ben tells Tim that he felt Tim took his place as the person Estelle has an unfair grievance with. I will listen to it again later and get the direct quotes.
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I think what they are both saying is that their time with Estelle was difficult. They acted and reacted in inappropriate ways. Ben said he did some awful things and Tim’s apology for his tweet is pretty clear. This is not to say they are the bad guys and Estelle was the innocent victim. Estelle had a part to play in the breakdown of their relationships and also acted and reacted in unhelpful or inappropriate ways.
 
As someone who isn’t a Ben fan, I also feel he is in a position to show a level of agreeable conversation to the people who come on his show. Maybe he was taking on perspectives from both Tim and Estelle. He was going with what they both were saying so they could both be comfortable to share their experience. It’s always hard listening to the views of those you do feel made your time hell. But from a host perspective I can see why Ben would have to adapt his approach and conversation to the person he is interviewing. Unfortunately o don’t think Tim or Estelle are ever going to see eye to eye on things that happened and I do think it’s sad given they are both unique/quirky people who did have a friendship before all this. Maybe one day things can be let go and they will be friends again.
 
MattyOj said:
I meant that he acknowledges he didn’t treat her well in 2012 when talking to Estelle but makes it seem like she was solely the problem when talking to Tim.
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I suppose both things can be true: Someone might be sincerely sorry for and ashamed of their behaviour, and regretful of the ramifications of it, or the hurt caused, etc. But they also might view someone as problematic in their behaviour and bringing some or even most of it on themselves. Or it might also be more angling the tone and topic to his interview subjects... Most adults can view things through multiple lenses, I think.
 
Melore said:
I suppose both things can be true: Someone might be sincerely sorry for and ashamed of their behaviour, and regretful of the ramifications of it, or the hurt caused, etc. But they also might view someone as problematic in their behaviour and bringing some or even most of it on themselves. Or it might also be more angling the tone and topic to his interview subjects... Most adults can view things through multiple lenses, I think.
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Well stated 👏🏽
 
Melore said:
I suppose both things can be true: Someone might be sincerely sorry for and ashamed of their behaviour, and regretful of the ramifications of it, or the hurt caused, etc. But they also might view someone as problematic in their behaviour and bringing some or even most of it on themselves. Or it might also be more angling the tone and topic to his interview subjects... Most adults can view things through multiple lenses, I think.
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Most adults can also admit when bias is a factor, of which ours is opposing 😉
 
Melore said:
I suppose both things can be true: Someone might be sincerely sorry for and ashamed of their behaviour, and regretful of the ramifications of it, or the hurt caused, etc. But they also might view someone as problematic in their behaviour and bringing some or even most of it on themselves. Or it might also be more angling the tone and topic to his interview subjects... Most adults can view things through multiple lenses, I think.
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I genuinely find this confusing?
How can in one breath someone take responsibility for something and apologise.

But then in the other blame and justify the actions which would actually invalidate your apology on said topic? Would it not?
 
bleachy_dude said:
I think what they are both saying is that their time with Estelle was difficult. They acted and reacted in inappropriate ways. Ben said he did some awful things and Tim’s apology for his tweet is pretty clear. This is not to say they are the bad guys and Estelle was the innocent victim. Estelle had a part to play in the breakdown of their relationships and also acted and reacted in unhelpful or inappropriate ways.
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If you listen from the 29 minute mark in his interview with Tim, Ben talks about how he felt validated by watching Tim’s experience in ‘dealing with Estelle’. I don’t think it’s worded particularly kindly but I’m sure we’re going to see it differently.
 
Estelle.Landy said:
I genuinely find this confusing?
How can in one breath someone take responsibility for something and apologise.

But then in the other blame and justify the actions which would actually invalidate your apology on said topic? Would it not?
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Because they are taking responsibility for their part and apologising for their part.

This does not mean everything was their fault. I don’t think “blame” is what they were doing as much as giving context to why they acted inappropriately.

The situation isn’t black and white. It’s not Ben and Tim = bad, Estelle = good.

Can you not see/acknowledge that?
 
bleachy_dude said:
Because they are taking responsibility for their part and apologising for their part.

This does not mean everything was their fault. I don’t think “blame” is what they were doing as much as giving context to why they acted inappropriately.

The situation isn’t black and white. It’s not Ben and Tim = bad, Estelle = good.

Can you not see/acknowledge that?
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This is not the narrative I am trying to say at all. What is with having had a theme of this good and bad thing.
Not something I have ever pushed.

I am saying it is pretty black and white just in general.. you are either taking responsibility and apologising because you believe you have wronged someone or thing.

Or you blame them and justify your actions/ stand by them.

I am talking in generalness.
 
Estelle.Landy said:
This is not the narrative I am trying to say at all. What is with having had a theme of this good and bad thing.
Not something I have ever pushed.

I am saying it is pretty black and white just in general.. you are either taking responsibility and apologising because you believe you have wronged someone or thing.

Or you blame them and justify your actions/ stand by them.

I am talking in generalness.
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Estelle, after this I’m going to drop it completely. Firstly because I have a fair bit of respect for you and secondly because this is going around in circles.

You can do both.

Tim is saying that he is sorry for the way he reacted to the way you acted or played the game. Hurt people hurt people. He was pretty clear that his unacceptable tweet came from being hurt by you. So therefore it’s logical to apologise for the way he reacted but still hold that things you said and did were hurtful and harmful.

Like I said, I think you have been amazing this series for the most part. Well played and well done. I truly hope that this season opens up many amazing new experiences for you x
 
bleachy_dude said:
Estelle, after this I’m going to drop it completely. Firstly because I have a fair bit of respect for you and secondly because this is going around in circles.

You can do both.

Tim is saying that he is sorry for the way he reacted to the way you acted or played the game. Hurt people hurt people. He was pretty clear that his unacceptable tweet came from being hurt by you. So therefore it’s logical to apologise for the way he reacted but still hold that things you said and did were hurtful and harmful.

Like I said, I think you have been amazing this series for the most part. Well played and well done. I truly hope that this season opens up many amazing new experiences for you x
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I am more talking about Ben here. Probably should have said that.
 
Snowcow said:
That's kind of an interviewer thing in general, not necessarily a Ben thing.
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For sure! I don't know why everything he says it's held against him where it has to be perceived as something "nasty" and insidious.

I thought the podcast interview flowed beautifully. Clear and concise questions by Ben, honest and heartfelt answers by Estelle. There was no animosity or any bitterness in the air. Ben was being an interviewer and they do ask the toughest questions and sometimes it is because fans request them as well.
 
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