Episode BBAU 2022 - Episode 21 Discussion (21 June, 7:30pm)

[DumbDumbTerry]

It’s an uphill climb for the newbies for sure, but there’s still scope there to win over the public. Imagine if someone like Tim was a newbie, or Reggie. Of course, they’re also at the mercy of biased editing, but with the right combination of strategy and personality, it’s possible for a newbie to win. The issue is, there are two goals; to make it to the final, and to endear yourself to the public above the other remaining HMs. If your strategy to meet your first goal is too cut throat, you can forget about goal two. It’s a catch 22. That’s the problem with what we saw from Taras last night. It would be different if it was Survivor, where strategy is paramount and you’re ultimately judged by your peers.

There is just no way that Reggie stays if she goes into BB as a newbie, from a gameplay perspective and also from a simple "lets get to know them" one as well. So many of the newbies have such incredible personalities that aren't portrayed (Aleisha is SO INCREDIBLE ITS NOT FUNNY). Like Aleisha would be a Reggie in a normal season I bet.

 

[Isee]

There is just no way that Reggie stays if she goes into BB as a newbie, from a gameplay perspective and also from a simple "lets get to know them" one as well. So many of the newbies have such incredible personalities that aren't portrayed (Aleisha is SO INCREDIBLE ITS NOT FUNNY). Like Aleisha would be a Reggie in a normal season I bet.

when you as a newbie realised you were in the house with past players did that change how you planned on playing? Was under the radar always the plan? Not that this forum has ever seen you as under the radar anyway!

 

[DumbDumbTerry]

I just finished listening to Tully’s latest podcast and there’s lots to unpack. She goes into how she knew Taras was coming for her after he did an unkind impersonation (that we obviously weren’t shown) and how she feels about the OGs that didn’t back her. She also talks about where she’s at with Drew and pretty much affirms how many of us feel towards him this time around. It’s well worth a listen.

Oh is there?! Ill have to listen to it. I've told Tully so many times about what actually happened on her eviction and in the scramble, but I think she finds it easier to not believe me so she has something to push back on. Ill have a listen and give my thoughts.

Oh no, not coming out of the "lift".

@DumbDumbTerry @Estelle.Landy @tee_smyth was it stupid/weird having to participate in silly stuff like the fake lift?

Yeah of course! But also its still sort of fun and dumb. Just sometimes feels like a real lift would be easier for everyone hehe

I don't mind it when someone goes back on their word if it's explained so at least tonight Taras got into the edit and he explained it

Because it makes sense why he is now going to vote for Drew even though he said he wouldn't

The Tully one was VERY COMPLICATED and definitely not how it was shown.

But this Drew one is not complicated haha, i lied straight to his face.

when you as a newbie realised you were in the house with past players did that change how you planned on playing? Was under the radar always the plan? Not that this forum has ever seen you as under the radar anyway!

Hmmm no not really. The thing is, you cant think of everything and still expect to get to the end. First of all its SURVIVING each day, and that requires an enormous amount of energy and skill and unfortunately a bit of luck as well. And so youve got to play to your strengths, whatever they may be. Then factor in Big Brothers twists and turns, and knowing you dont really know what the edit is going to be, and then that these OGs have an established fanbase, and you just go "fuck it....hopefully I can just survive and maybe make a few moves on the way". I will say that all us newbies probably thought we'd come across better than we have. And another thing, the OGs actually held A LOT of sway at the start because we respected and idolised them, but i would say they were probably quite emotionally manipulative about how the newbies were playing their game: saying we were all playing with out heads and had no heart. And we felt really bad, because we were like "but....but the game is about getting further...?". So we had people like Reg and Dave who were off limits. But about halfway through we all started realising that the OGs, who were "heart players" were actually just doing things that served them, and we got frustrated continuing to respect them in certain ways.

Also, the Gabbie move was actually incredibly smart. She needed to not have Johnson up there against Drew because Drew has a much better chance of staying against me or Brenton than he does against Johnson.

 

[timmy]

Yeah of course! But also its still sort of fun and dumb. Just sometimes feels like a real lift would be easier for everyone hehe

Like taking part in a pantomime I imagine. Still I suppose there'd be a lot (a majority?) of viewers who have no idea it's a fake lift. It's just so corny for those of us who are in the know. Adds to the list of reasons to roll our eyes at Seven's incarnation.

 

[JimJam]

There is just no way that Reggie stays if she goes into BB as a newbie, from a gameplay perspective and also from a simple "lets get to know them" one as well. So many of the newbies have such incredible personalities that aren't portrayed (Aleisha is SO INCREDIBLE ITS NOT FUNNY). Like Aleisha would be a Reggie in a normal season I bet.

I agree with you to a point. All the newbies are at a disadvantage because, in the current format, we simply don’t get to know the HMs as we grew to know the OGs in their seasons. In the early days of the show, I think the producers were guided by the narratives that grew organically rather than forcing storylines, and although the more interesting HMs were featured more prominently (rightly so), the edit was less biased. The daily show could just aimlessly meander in a way that just shouldn’t have been as entertaining as it actually was, with quirky little vignettes that spoke volumes about the characters in the house. None of that now. I am completely bemused by the current iteration of the show that spends precious airtime on a ball rolling on a plank but will not allow any character development. So yes, I get that point, that newbies are disadvantaged compared to the OGs. But my comment was also about strategy vs. personality. Not only was nom chat banned in the past, but HMs just never talked about gameplay at all and strategy didn’t seem to extend beyond trying to not get nominated by being popular and voting for your enemies - personality could carry you through and win you the game, eg. Reggie. The HMs now are so laser focussed on gameplay, that they seem to lose sight of the damage they’ve doing to their end game, which still relies on public popularity. Maybe it’s a combination of casting, editing and the game culture in the house, but we’re just not seeing the endearing personalities anymore. In his season, Tim managed to walk the fine line between personality and strategy. He was savvy enough to create storylines for himself and get the airtime, and came across as more mischievous than Machiavellian. He worked hard for his win. I think he could do that again as a newbie, but I guess we’ll never know…

 

[bleachy_dude]

But this Drew one is not complicated haha, i lied straight to his face.

Haha this is pretty funny. And I can hear you saying it in your unique cadence

 

[DumbDumbTerry]

I agree with you to a point. All the newbies are at a disadvantage because, in the current format, we simply don’t get to know the HMs as we grew to know the OGs in their seasons. In the early days of the show, I think the producers were guided by the narratives that grew organically rather than forcing storylines, and although the more interesting HMs were featured more prominently (rightly so), the edit was less biased. The daily show could just aimlessly meander in a way that just shouldn’t have been as entertaining as it actually was, with quirky little vignettes that spoke volumes about the characters in the house. None of that now. I am completely bemused by the current iteration of the show that spends precious airtime on a ball rolling on a plank but will not allow any character development. So yes, I get that point, that newbies are disadvantaged compared to the OGs. But my comment was also about strategy vs. personality. Not only was nom chat banned in the past, but HMs just never talked about gameplay at all and strategy didn’t seem to extend beyond trying to not get nominated by being popular and voting for your enemies - personality could carry you through and win you the game, eg. Reggie. The HMs now are so laser focussed on gameplay, that they seem to lose sight of the damage they’ve doing to their end game, which still relies on public popularity. Maybe it’s a combination of casting, editing and the game culture in the house, but we’re just not seeing the endearing personalities anymore. In his season, Tim managed to walk the fine line between personality and strategy. He was savvy enough to create storylines for himself and get the airtime, and came across as more mischievous than Machiavellian. He worked hard for his win. I think he could do that again as a newbie, but I guess we’ll never know…

Yep I agree with so much here. I do think though that it is sort of chalk and cheese comparing the old format with this one. Like, they are just SO totally different, because like you said, the old versions were pretty much just personality that carried you, strategy just wasnt really part of it.

I think it just seems us newbies are focused on gameplay because thats all you are shown. There was so much quirky, funny, interesting stuff we got up to in there. Its just annoying because its a subtle thing, but reading your post you stop the buck with us, that its US HMs that are laser focused on gameplay, the WE lost sight of the damage we're doing our end game, but like, we dont get to choose what they show of us, and how they show it. Ive been lambasted for lying to Drew and Tully, but even Reggie lied straight to Gabbies face countless times about the exact same thing. I bring Reg up because she is seen as the moral compass of the show, but even the moral compass did "selfish" things to further their game. I say "selfish" in commas because this iteration is a friggen game haha! Like none of you play monopoly to lose do you?!

Tim is the only one who I think is a freak and could potentially be a Newbie that sways Australia. BUT, now that Ive experienced what I have with the public, I honestly think he would still have an incredibly hard time, because I dont even know if the producers would see and be able to portray his incredible nature correctly, and if Australia would embrace him more than an OG that was playing.

 

[destinynz_]

There is just no way that Reggie stays if she goes into BB as a newbie, from a gameplay perspective and also from a simple "lets get to know them" one as well. So many of the newbies have such incredible personalities that aren't portrayed (Aleisha is SO INCREDIBLE ITS NOT FUNNY). Like Aleisha would be a Reggie in a normal season I bet.

I can’t stand Aleisha (and Johnson) so the editors must really be doing her bad because I don’t find her likeable at all

 

[Isee]

Yep I agree with so much here. I do think though that it is sort of chalk and cheese comparing the old format with this one. Like, they are just SO totally different, because like you said, the old versions were pretty much just personality that carried you, strategy just wasnt really part of it.

I think it just seems us newbies are focused on gameplay because thats all you are shown. There was so much quirky, funny, interesting stuff we got up to in there. Its just annoying because its a subtle thing, but reading your post you stop the buck with us, that its US HMs that are laser focused on gameplay, the WE lost sight of the damage we're doing our end game, but like, we dont get to choose what they show of us, and how they show it. Ive been lambasted for lying to Drew and Tully, but even Reggie lied straight to Gabbies face countless times about the exact same thing. I bring Reg up because she is seen as the moral compass of the show, but even the moral compass did "selfish" things to further their game. I say "selfish" in commas because this iteration is a friggen game haha! Like none of you play monopoly to lose do you?!

Tim is the only one who I think is a freak and could potentially be a Newbie that sways Australia. BUT, now that Ive experienced what I have with the public, I honestly think he would still have an incredibly hard time, because I dont even know if the producers would see and be able to portray his incredible nature correctly, and if Australia would embrace him more than an OG that was playing.

Lets face it the advertising should really say "who wins - production decides" - Production drives the narrative for the final three which will lead people to make a decision. As others have said - it should really be like survivor where there is a jury of your housemates who decide. They are the ones who see all the things we are not getting to see.

 

[bleachy_dude]

Yep I agree with so much here. I do think though that it is sort of chalk and cheese comparing the old format with this one. Like, they are just SO totally different, because like you said, the old versions were pretty much just personality that carried you, strategy just wasnt really part of it.

I think it just seems us newbies are focused on gameplay because thats all you are shown. There was so much quirky, funny, interesting stuff we got up to in there. Its just annoying because its a subtle thing, but reading your post you stop the buck with us, that its US HMs that are laser focused on gameplay, the WE lost sight of the damage we're doing our end game, but like, we dont get to choose what they show of us, and how they show it. Ive been lambasted for lying to Drew and Tully, but even Reggie lied straight to Gabbies face countless times about the exact same thing. I bring Reg up because she is seen as the moral compass of the show, but even the moral compass did "selfish" things to further their game. I say "selfish" in commas because this iteration is a friggen game haha! Like none of you play monopoly to lose do you?!

Tim is the only one who I think is a freak and could potentially be a Newbie that sways Australia. BUT, now that Ive experienced what I have with the public, I honestly think he would still have an incredibly hard time, because I dont even know if the producers would see and be able to portray his incredible nature correctly, and if Australia would embrace him more than an OG that was playing.

I’m finding this conversation very fascinating. Thanks for engaging long form here Taras.

So … I get that it might be frustrating that more social aspects of the game are not being shown. But had you watched previous series over the last 2 years? Like you all should be aware that this is what it is (good or bad)?

I’m fully guilty of wanting Reggie to win regardless of how she plays so this newbies v OGs is a bit flawed in this way. But I guess the up side is that you got to live with some BB Royalty that others would love to have the chance to do. Is that enough of a benefit?

Whether you get to the end and win or lose, now that some have turned against you and the show is definitely pressing in to the villain edit (I purposefully say ‘pressing in’ as opposed to creating or manufacturing) do you regret going on the show? Would you have preferred to be in a straight civilian series? Are you thankful for the experience you had?

 

[bleachy_dude]

Then factor in Big Brothers twists and turns, and knowing you dont really know what the edit is going to be, and then that these OGs have an established fanbase, and you just go "fuck it....hopefully I can just survive and maybe make a few moves on the way". I will say that all us newbies probably thought we'd come across better than we have.

Actually, I just re read this post and you kind of answered some of what I’m asking in terms of knowing what to expect in this format.

 

[freddy]

10 bread = 10 slices of bread
caramello koala = one caramelllo koala
onions written 4 times = 4 bags of onions

So why wasn't it just 4 onions ?????

Oh, that's an easy one ...

Using "10 bread" as the example, they didn't write "4 onions". Instead, they wrote the word "onions" four times. It's clearly different.

Had they written "4 onions" then they would have recevied four onions, just as they received 10 (slices of) bread when they wrote "10 bread".



(Am I perhaps over-thinking this? Do I need to get a life? Yep, for sure.)

 

[PamBlack]

I want Tim to win cos I think he’s a genius and so entertaining. I don’t follow social media but have heard some disparaging things were said to Estelle which would be hurtful and that’s not good, that part I don’t agree with. But in terms of playing he is smart and funny.

 

[bleachy_dude]

Oh, that's an easy one ...

Using "10 bread" as the example, they didn't write "4 onions". Instead, they wrote the word "onions" four times. It's clearly different.

Had they written "4 onions" then they would have recevied four onions, just as they received 10 (slices of) bread when they wrote "10 bread".



(Am I perhaps over-thinking this? Do I need to get a life? Yep, for sure.)

You’re being very literal with the language.
I think it’s pretty clear what they intended and I don’t for a second think BB misunderstood what they meant. He may have taken advantage of their lack of description, but I think that was always built into the rush of hand writing the list. It was a funny moment on TV and that’s exactly what the producers planned imo.

 

[Hunter's_Mckay]

I agree 1000 per cent with what Taras is saying. You could be the greatest personality that's ever been on Aus BB and have an impossible time beating Reggie or Tim at the end because they are the OGs and they are getting the better edits and you are mainly just getting strategy. That's why the format isn't really fair to the newbies.

 

[bleachy_dude]

I want Tim to win cos I think he’s a genius and so entertaining. I don’t follow social media but have heard some disparaging things were said to Estelle which would be hurtful and that’s not good, that part I don’t agree with. But in terms of playing he is smart and funny.

Tim is my all time favourite game player. I’ve said it before, I found the Estelle exchange distressing as I like them both. But I still wouldn’t mind if Tim wins this season.

 

[freddy]

You’re being very literal with the language.
I think it’s pretty clear what they intended and I don’t for a second think BB misunderstood what they meant. He may have taken advantage of their lack of description, but I think that was always built into the rush of hand writing the list. It was a funny moment on TV and that’s exactly what the producers planned imo.

I completely agree. BB did definitely know what they wanted; as do we. Yes, it was certainly just a funny moment on TV pre-planned by the producers.

(But, yes, you've nailed me, I do so much enjoy being literal and playing with the language.)

 

[Melore]

Gabbies move would have actually been smart (voting for Brenton to force a tie) if Drew had also had 2 votes. Then her and Tim could have saved Drew and put all 3 of Johnson, Taras and Brenton up.

Yes, it was a potentially clever move - but basing it on if Drew had only two votes - and knowing she was going against the agreement with Reg and Estelle to risk it - it struck me as a stupid and pointless move. She certainly seemed very pleased with herself, though.

 

[Melore]

The Tully one was VERY COMPLICATED and definitely not how it was shown.

And yet you looked dreadfully pleased when she was voted out!

 

[LegendLenny]

I can’t stand Aleisha (and Johnson) so the editors must really be doing her bad because I don’t find her likeable at all

Aleisha been my guilty pleasure all season