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Survivor Second Chance

Melore said:
I'd like Spencer to win the big bucks and title, and Keith to be the surprised runner up who gets $100,000. Does it still work like that? But if Spencer is out of the running, I am KEEF all the way.
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I really hope so too, it's gonna be hard once Kelley starts pulling out idols for herself and the girls though.
 
I am enjoying this season, but I totally get wanting more engaging character development - and to say that we don't need character development is kind of contradictory to what I've been reading in this thread, when it seems that most forum members are cheering for contestants because they like what they saw of them in previous seasons, i.e., what they saw of their personality/character. So the only reason some of you don't see it as important in this season, is because you already felt you knew the characters well enough, thanks to the character development you enjoyed in previous seasons.

And I'm sure many viewers watching this show have seen previous seasons and likewise don't feel the need for more insight, but it's nice to do that for any newcomers to the show, even if it is a "Second Chance" season. Personally I have finally just watched Cagayan (the only one I missed) and now I get more of the appeal of Tash, Kass, Woo and Spencer. So character development does make a difference.

I understand the scenarios in each season are very different (e.g. Spencer isn't so much of an underdog this season so you can't show him being the fighter he was in Cagayan), but I'm sure they could still have managed to show us more personality - for me, they have done a pretty good job in showing some players as being unlikable, at least, but haven't done so much in showing some players as being likable (other than Keith, in which the tuk-tuk driving moment was definitely a nice inclusion).
 
A lot of people online don't like Spencer, despite having seen his season. Many people are also simply not intelligent enough to recognize how intelligent he is. On other forums I read, people flat out think he's stupid and despise him for his game - and these are people who pride themselves on being Survivor 'superfans'.

I would agree the editing has been choppy this season, especially around pre-tribal council, with a deliberate intention to increase suspense, but in such a way the outcome of the votes is a bit baffling as a few steps/conversations have been left out.

But if you don't like Spencer, I think it is because you don't like/get Spencer. Maybe he would appeal to you more if you'd watched his season, maybe not. Is more exposure the word your looking for? or more footage? as I do not see how 'character development' comes into this.

In any case, there is only one bumper episode left, and if you are not enjoying it now complaining about it here is really unlikely to change the edit at this point.
 
since I can't stand Spencer I'll field that one. A lot of the people who don't like him are frustrated by the fact that he gets so much screen time for seemingly no reason. He's boring and not engaging and lacks charisma. He gets an absurd number of confessionals each episode and they're all similar in their boring content. He's needlessly condescending and smug towards others for no reason, and is quick to look down his nose as others despite being nothing special himself. His mannerisms and head bobs and awkward faces are annoying as hell, and he lacks a compelling story. He gets a lot more credit than he deserves because he's a production favorite. It doesn't help with Probst jerks him off like last week when he solved the puzzle SO QUICKLY (because he memorized the puzzle, but of course they can't show that in the episode.)
 
My highlight of this season is yet to come. I think Kass will never be able to vote for Spencer to win, so watching her vote elsewhere based on bitter grudging pride will be spectacular.
 
I think Spencer, Jeremy and Kelley are all in the with a shot next week. They all seemed to have reasonable winner's quotes this week. Tasha, however, seemed a bit disingenuous, talking about giving the fans what they want one week after eliminating Joe. Kimmy remains a non-factor on the show - despite he having a really great, strategic confessional on YouTube this week, there was nothing but following on the show.

My ideal final three would be Spencer, Jeremy and Kelley, because I like S and K, and I just think that J will definitely be there at the end, front he way he's been presented all along.

I am guessing that the First Time In Survivor History thing this week will be a double idol play, which will result in a record, as all votes are cancelled out. How would that play out? Spencer or Keith would have immunity, Kelley plays his idol, so Jeremy gets nervous and plays his. If Jeremy still has Tasha and Kimmy, and Kelly is still with Keith, we either get a 3-3 tie, with 3 people being immune, and if the votes were for J and K, then no votes count so a revote... If they were voted for, Kelly and Jeremy can't vote. If Spence is immune, He, Tasha, Kimmi and Keith would vote out...probably Keith. If Keith is immune, why wouldn't they vote out Spencer? So, I don't think Spencer would force the 3-3 tie. So, I think Keith will go home at 6, without immunity. And Kimmi just hasn't had enough airtime to make it to the final, so she's out before the end too.

Wow... Lots of boots this next episode.
 
Melore said:
But if you don't like Spencer, I think it is because you don't like/get Spencer. Maybe he would appeal to you more if you'd watched his season, maybe not. Is more exposure the word your looking for? or more footage? as I do not see how 'character development' comes into this.
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The term "character development" may be a bit confusing but it does not have to literally mean seeing someone develop as a person a la "redeeming oneself on a second chance season" or whatever. It can be providing facets of a person that enables the audience to develop a better understanding of the individual, regardless of whether they grow as a person throughout the story arc or not. So, yes, the inclusion of the right footage counts as character development for the purposes of this discussion. See the term "development" as we the audience getting to see different layers of the character as time goes by. Those layers may always be there, the "development" is that they are shown and we get to see them.

This explains it better than I can (it talks about creating fiction characters, but the idea is applicable to editing of reality TV shows): http://www.ohio.edu/people/hartleyg/ref/fiction/character2.html

A well-developed character is one that has been thoroughly characterised, with many traits shown in the narrative. The better the audience knows the character, the better the character development. Thorough characterisation makes characters well-rounded and complex. This allows for a sense of realism. As an example, according to F.R. Leavis, Leo Tolstoy was the creator of some of the most complex and psychologically believable characters in fiction. In contrast, an underdeveloped character is considered flat or stereotypical.
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And while some people may not like Spencer regardless, personally for me, watching Cagayan made a huge difference, as I said. I was confused about why so many people here (plus my boyfriend) liked Spencer so much in this season when to me he has yet to shown anything particularly remarkable yet in Second Chance. I only understood the appeal after watching Cagayan. And I suspect I would also find many of the other contestants less interesting had I not already watched their previous seasons. So, while I appreciate this season, I don't think it is beyond criticism and improvement, in that sense.
 
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Lyf said:
The term "character development" may be a bit confusing but it does not have to literally mean seeing someone develop as a person a la "redeeming oneself on a second chance season" or whatever. It can be providing facets of a person that enables the audience to develop a better understanding of the individual, regardless of whether they grow as a person throughout the story arc or not. So, yes, the inclusion of the right footage counts as character development for the purposes of this discussion. See the term "development" as we the audience getting to see different layers of the character as time goes by. Those layers may always be there, the "development" is that they are shown and we get to see them.

This explains it better than I can (it talks about fiction but it is applicable to editing of reality TV shows): http://www.ohio.edu/people/hartleyg/ref/fiction/character2.html



And while some people may not like Spencer regardless, personally for me, watching Cagayan made a huge difference, as I said. I was confused about why so many people here (plus my boyfriend) liked Spencer so much in this season when to me he has yet to shown anything particularly remarkable yet in Second Chance. I only understood the appeal after watching Cagayan. And I suspect I would also find many of the other contestants less interesting had I not already watched their previous seasons. So, while I appreciate this season, I don't think it is beyond criticism and improvement, in that sense.
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With regards to characterisation and development, I feel like production have either dropped the ball, or at least their red herrings have fallen flat. For instance, what about the Savage\Stephen rivalry storyline? That went nowhere. Stephen\Joe, too, didn't really pay off. I realise that sometimes, like on SJDS, they edit it in such a way as to confuse the audience, but I don't think that's what's gone on here. Still, this has been a good season overall.

Varner was great. People paying the price for keeping Abi over Vitas should be a lesson to everyone who thought they could work with her. The dynamic we structures has been fun. Pretty good stuff.
 
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Winterbourne said:
I think Spencer, Jeremy and Kelley are all in the with a shot next week.
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That's probably just a typo - but just in case it isn't, it's all happening this week! Only three more sleeps!!! There is a double episode and then the reunion show. So excitement!!
 
Melore said:
That's probably just a typo - but just in case it isn't, it's all happening this week! Only three more sleeps!!! There is a double episode and then the reunion show. So excitement!!
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It's great that GO are showing it early, but I won't be able to watch until the normal time anyway, which means avoiding this thread all day. I'm excited too, I've really enjoyed this season, whatever the outcome.
 
Yay, only a few days until a Survivor feast.....and then back to nothing. I haven't even got a favourite. Ummm....anyone but Kelley ftw.
 
Also going for anyone but Kelley. She has done well for herself to get up to this point but I find her insufferable.
 
Spencer by far, then Keith. Don't really care for the others, but yeah, especially not Kelley.
I was a big Tasha fan last time and would have voted for her return, but this time, as Jeff would say, "I got nothin' for ya".
 
I'd actually prefer Kelley over Keith - at least she's made a few plays. Keith's been clueless in most tribals lol. Although I do like him. Spencer's number one though for me.
 
I agree that Keith is clueless and is an inappropriate choice for winning Survivor, even though I like him. However, Kelley grates on my nerves so much that I'd relish seeing Keith win over her. Her reaction would be priceless. The only scenario in which I can go for Kelley is if she was in the final three with Ciera and Abi, but that is a scenario too horrifying to even contemplate and thankfully we don't have to.
 
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