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Religious (or not) affiliation
- Thread starter Kismet
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Xaltau
Life always gets in the way of living!
Btw....I got 'bible bashed' today! Poor kid was away from his home and family ( in Utah) for 3 years, talking to people at crappy train stations in Melbourne. I asked him if he was happy, and if he enjoyed what he was doing. He said god made him happy.
I was probably more happy when the bus came!!
I was probably more happy when the bus came!!
I bet he was happy that you stopped to have a chat with him.
The train stations are going to be flat chat around Melbourne over the next couple of weeks. It is near on impossible to get a hotel room anywhere, everything is booked - 70,000+ folks are arriving for the World Jehovah Witness Convention at Etihad.
Xaltau
Life always gets in the way of living!
This guy has been here for a while, and I was happy to talk to him, but I don't like being preached to, ever!
I did feel sorry for him, he was just a kid. I can't imagine what it would be like to be sent away from home as a missionary.
But yes, there are a LOT of J.Witnesses coming to Melb. Damn I could have rented that spare room out!
However, I do want to know what they 'witnessed'!!
Edited spelling and puntuation.
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its very interesting that so many people are saying things like 'christian (but really atheist)', 'jewish (but not really)', and so on.
what a great world this would be if more people could just answer 'atheist', 'agnostic', 'none', etc. just imagine a world where non-believers didnt permit religion to stake ownership to their very identities, or coerce them into identifying with a religion they had no interest or belief in.
what a great world this would be if more people could just answer 'atheist', 'agnostic', 'none', etc. just imagine a world where non-believers didnt permit religion to stake ownership to their very identities, or coerce them into identifying with a religion they had no interest or belief in.
Xaltau
Life always gets in the way of living!
Great comment!
jessy_girl
Well-Known Member
Yeah that would/could be interesting actually. I definitely won't start the thread but I'd be curious to hear from others.
Kismet
This IS me.
First re Paul. I was the same as you and in fact before study, thought he was nothing but a misogynist twat, but after realising his
utter respect for Phebe I softened. That said it has been shown that a lot of works attributed to Paul were penned by others in some
cases centuries later, it removes the somewhat manic style shown in his Epistles.
As to the other points, I don't know if you have read the gnostic gospels ( my favourite is that of Phillip) but they paint the Jesus
character in a different light. They have his pre-pubescent life and antics.
Thanks for that. If Jesus of Nazareth was any of the above, IMO he was an Essene or part of an Essene sect known as the Nazarenes. That
said, the earliest Christians known of, being the Ebonites, had no reverence to any Jesus of Nazareth as being any messiah or god incarnate, did not believe in any resurrection. They do however believe Yeshua( Christianity's Saviour) was supposely "chosen" (annointed) to do Elohim's work but was just a man.. not even part of the Godhead. They believe due to the info found in the DSS (and at their time, such scrolls would have been used as reference points (they were written at the time the Ebonites were around) that this teacher of righteousness lived a lot earlier than Christianity's Jesus and in one scroll of the DSS, a similar
I used the term vessel as to Mary as I didn't necessarily want to put a sex on Mary either hence allowing for the alpha/omega. I should
have pointed that out so, my bad. Ironically though in Hebrew G-d is known by no name..gender neutral. But I am sure you may have seen
Elohim bandied around as being the NAME of God as the creator of all which is a "he" at least a far as Strongs tells us.(rolling my eyes
re Strongs) I found out that Jews don't care and if anything IF G-d is any sex, probably feminine purely as it is the ultimate "giver
of life" as in bringing it forth, literally from itself.
I also realise that in Christianity Jesus of Nazareth is considered God, but AFAIC it tends to fall apart a bit when God asks the
Godself why he has forsaken..himself?Surely god is above personal disappointment with itself considering it's an allegedly "all knowing"
entity and assumed perfect? That and despite "Jesus is God" being the common, core tenent of near all branches/enominations/sects of
Christianity, never at any point is there admision of this assumed core fact in ANY of the "Jesus said" offerings throughout the classic
4Gospels. Do you have any info that would give me cause to pause and rethink such a line of reasoning?
Well as far as Christianity itself goes, Christmas (for example) follows pagan ritualism: everything from yule-tide festivities to
decorating trees and the like. The concept of Jesus having been born too runs with the concepts of rebirth and renewal: elements
celebrated during the Pagan Winter Solstice. (as you know many religious celebrations revolve aroun Nthn Hemisphere seasonal
conditions). In Christianity there are also clear influences taken from Zorastrianism (more paganistic ritual again), who had the 3 Magi
come to welcome the "reborn", the concept of heaven an hell (which is NOT an element ofJudaism in the way Christians perceive it). Now
getting to Paul, much like Zoroaster, Paul had his "vision"- (Damascus). Paul even after his personal "revelation"be came through his
own admission a Pharisee (which is written about in Phillipians) whose customs and rituals had clear paganistic vibe to them. I could go
on an on about this..lol but you get the gist.
In hindsight I loathe to put progressive and Baptist in the same ROOM, let alone the same sentence, but yes I was a Christian during my
study and my father in law ( I married a Pastors son) wanted a female to be able to Minister to the women and children within the
church. It was a comfort measure on his behalf I suppose as there are some issues women aren't comfy talking openly to a man about and I
was willingly up for the job. I first achieved my CCA and then went on to pursue degrees in Theology (BTH), Ministry(BMH) and my
D.Div,hence language skills kicking in and going to Israel to be closer to the souce languages (so to speak) My study, yes.. resulted in
my leaving Christianity. I take pride in knowing dead languages..lol I can cuss my hubby for example if I am cranky with him and he just think I have sneezed..lol
Would have been an interesting time at SFC where Protestants & Catholics could compare notes..so to speak..lol How did that go? Sorry
though you had to deal with overzealous Baptist. I know full well what a weird mob they can be as I did the snake handling stuff and
asorted other things I won't mention. So I will peg you as a moderate Christian given the above parameters and I say that with the
utmost respect as you have a balanced view rather than the literal overkill mentality.
If you ever get the opportunity, I recommend you go! It's eye opening at the very least to tread the ground Jesus allegedly walked. As
to the DDS...that study had a lot to do my leaving Christianity. Being able to read the Tanakh, Nevi'im and Ketuvim as close as possible in the original tongue. I alo learned Aramaic which helped with a better understanding ofthe Gopel of Matthew (IMO the most lucid an real of the NT Gospels). I found the book of Esther to be my personal favoutite as it seems that G-d must have a dry sense of humour..comedic.. almost Shakespearian in style..lol It opened a new world of undertanding for me which, I am truly grateful.Doing so lead me to research the Hasmoneon era which has made
the exercise even more worthwhile. I do not regret one second of such study and in fact am still an avid student, although these days, far more critically but in a recreational way.
shadow2
Well-Known Member
Gosh Trala, what a journey you have had.... Much respect
Well I started it ,should be interesting http://www.behindbigbrother.com/forums/threads/children-yay-or-nay.52152/
I think all but the more fundamental scholars/theologians acknowledge that -and ministers teach it too (at least any that trained around the same time I did)
I’ve read some – not all. For my degree I did an assignment on how the Bible was chosen and I have to say I honestly feel some of these gnostic gospels should have got in. (and some of those antics were very interesting lol )
.
Not sure that I agree that the Ebonites are the only group of ‘earliest’ Christians. I think there were plenty who did see Jesus as God/Son of God/Messiah/resurrected. Certainly it was a well established belief before too much time had passed.
.
But I love Strongs (not). IMO God is not any particular gender and I preach the feminine aspects of God regularly. I’ve only been in this parish 18 months and you should have seen their reaction when I preached on Sophia and Wisdom. Actually got them thinking which was great.
Ah, I have a theory on that - all to do with a correlation with a psalm. But putting that aside, remember that Christians believe Jesus to be both wholly divine AND wholly human. This was a human reaction. Now the question of how Jesus could be both is not one to be answered quickly or easily.
Prefacing this by admitting we have no idea who the authors were but they were very likely NOT witnesses to what they were writing:
Although Jesus never stated the words “I am God” he did say:
If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Jn 14:7
I and the Father are one.” Jn 10:33 (and lots more in John which I admit is blatantly Christological)
Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. Mk 14:60 etc, etc,
Yeah, I see what you are saying and know that you could have listed a lot more examples. You have already worked out that I am not one who takes the bible literally (actually, that’s not true. I do take it literally - that it is a collection of a huge number of different genres and you need to consider whether what you are reading is history, biography, liturgy, poetry etc. before you try to understand what truth it is telling you) . Having said that, I don’t necessarily agree that using existing /traditions/beliefs and “twisting” them to new understandings is necessarily wrong. We do this as culture evolves all the time. A good example of this is how – as we learn new things through science – we correct our old mistaken ‘knowledge’ of the what and how of our world and apply the new ‘facts’ to it.
Reading that back, I know I’m not making myself clear but hope you will get where I am coming from. My head is pretty scrambled tonight.
I am grateful that the Anglican church has reach a point where men or women are seen as valuable ministers to the whole church.
Absolutely fantastic. There was a lot of grief when the Anglicans pulled out of the ecumenical way of studying. It did make for some very passionate discussion groups, though.
My first semester, I was in an assignment group with a lady I called “Little Miss Baptist”. She definitely was overzealous. We became great mates and are still in touch. She pushed me into some of the best thinking I did.
I would say moderate Christian would be a fair call – and if there is any leaning it is probably towards the progressive.
Determined to get there one day. Missed out on an archeological dig that the St Francis Students participate in at Bethsaida every year. It is now approved as a study unit and they can place some of the cost on HECS. I just couldn’t afford it when I was in college. Did, however, get to Corinth and at least I do know for sure I walked the same road as Paul. lol
God most certainly does have a great sense of humour. I love Esther too - but not as much as Ruth. Possibly because she was a focus of an assignment at college.
Frankyfurt
Well-Known Member
For some reason I was Christened catholic .
Now I'm a pristian
Now I'm a pristian
Rudiger
Village Idiot
Raised Church of England, now atheist with a hint of agnosticism.
Last year I read the first 300 pages of The Bible (before giving up through boredom), and was quite shocked by how much of a bastard God actually is in it. Give the book of 'Joshua' a go for a sample.
Apologies to purists et al.
Last year I read the first 300 pages of The Bible (before giving up through boredom), and was quite shocked by how much of a bastard God actually is in it. Give the book of 'Joshua' a go for a sample.
Apologies to purists et al.
Chrushed
Member
I was raised in what many consider a cult, with fundamentalist Christian views, and a lot of weird non bible based doctrines thrown into the mix. Five years away from it, I have gone through the stage of trying to salvage some sort of belief in God. For now, I am proverbially throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There were so many things that trigger weird memories that I tend to steer clear from religion
Illabeth
Well-Known Member
I'm baptised and confirmed Anglican, I went to an Anglican school although as a teenager I was agnostic if not an atheist. Then in my very early 20s I leaned back more towards the church and believing for a couple of years, and now I'd say I fluctuate between agnostic and Anglican. My father is Anglican, and so am I, but my mother is Presbyterian and so are my younger brother and sister, at least they were raised, although I'd say my sister is an atheist now and I have no idea about my brother.
The funny this is, even though I am baptised and confirmed, before I hit high school, and even in those early years of HS I spent more time in Shul/ Synagogue than I did in Church and celebrated many Jewish holidays with our close family friends. As a result of that I have always been fascinated with the Jewish faith and studied it far more than I ever did Christianity, and it is probably still the faith that most intrigues me.
The funny this is, even though I am baptised and confirmed, before I hit high school, and even in those early years of HS I spent more time in Shul/ Synagogue than I did in Church and celebrated many Jewish holidays with our close family friends. As a result of that I have always been fascinated with the Jewish faith and studied it far more than I ever did Christianity, and it is probably still the faith that most intrigues me.
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Kismet
This IS me.
Yes, a full read rather than cherry-picking does show he's douchey. I personally would point to the Book of Job as a ripe example and even parts of Exodus (although in other parts he's FAB-U-LOUS due to his love of a good strong colour pallette and decorating style.)
Rudiger
Village Idiot
He commands the Hebrews "Thou shalt not kill," but then gives them the green light to go and massacre the population in Canaan, including women and children!
Ummm... what??
I never made it to Job, but isn't it considered one of the high points, at least purely as a piece of literature?
Kismet
This IS me.
I won't ask which denomination as if you wanted to mention it, you would have. (I have a couple going through my head as "might be" options though). It's a shame you went through it but at least you had the strength to question its viability for you personally and leave.
BTW I for one applaud you for recognising a life situation that was not a right "fit" for you and was a negative influence on your happiness.
Kismet
This IS me.
I know."Never changing", just contradictory.
I assume that's in reference to Exodus. Well the "FAB" part comes from His CLEAR desire to have adornment in hues of magenta and purple and gold.
Yes it is considered as such, but it also shows that the "satan" character is God's lapdog in a way as God would give him a task and he would do it, rather than the NT take on the "satan" character who's supposedly an adversary of God. Like I said, that's why I gave you props for actually making a start on reading it, rather than just cherry-picking bits.