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Estelle's "hard life"
- Thread starter Allgood
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pwta
Guest
I have no idea if she has had a hard life or not .... but don't do gangsta rap Estelle, because you're crap at it
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supermonster
Guest
I don't reckon it's at all superficial to mark out poverty as the primary characteristic of the hard life. It is its own problem, it reduces life chances, it causes disruption and stress in domestic life, it leads to poor nutrition, ill health, overcrowding (or even homelessness) and it compounds every other problem to be faced.
Poverty creates social exclusion, limits educational opportunities, narrows employment options, contributes to lower self-esteem and less participation in society.
You can have money and face misfortune but to be poor is to come face to face with the hard life in a way that doesn't compare.
Estelle may well have had to deal with some difficult matters but what exactly is this hard life she speaks of? All we know is she likes to make vague statements about it to HMs as if she's had it tougher than anyone else, but without explanation. And if it's something she'd prefer not to talk about on TV then why bring it up?
Has she actually bothered to learn about how much bullying and abuse Ben has had to put up growing up and being an effeminate gay man? Has she taken the trouble to understand what's contributed to cause Bradley's stutter? I'd say this "hard life" claim is just another example of Estelle playing one-upmanship. The detail is avoided so she's not challenged for superiority in hard living.
Poverty creates social exclusion, limits educational opportunities, narrows employment options, contributes to lower self-esteem and less participation in society.
You can have money and face misfortune but to be poor is to come face to face with the hard life in a way that doesn't compare.
Estelle may well have had to deal with some difficult matters but what exactly is this hard life she speaks of? All we know is she likes to make vague statements about it to HMs as if she's had it tougher than anyone else, but without explanation. And if it's something she'd prefer not to talk about on TV then why bring it up?
Has she actually bothered to learn about how much bullying and abuse Ben has had to put up growing up and being an effeminate gay man? Has she taken the trouble to understand what's contributed to cause Bradley's stutter? I'd say this "hard life" claim is just another example of Estelle playing one-upmanship. The detail is avoided so she's not challenged for superiority in hard living.
treescancatchfire
Member
You need to take into account the fact that this is a heavily edited show. It's more an editing choice, rather than Estelle wanting to keep her life private, that is preventing us from knowing why her life is so hard. It would be silly to believe that Estelle doesn't want to talk about her hard life on TV or that the other HMs would just accept that her life has been hard without question.
Estelle would have explained it all to them, and by the sounds of it more than once. It's not her fault that the only material put forward is the other HMs making a couple of general complaints that she talks about it a lot. Unless we have footage of the HMs saying "What exactly made her life so hard anyway? She never tells us," the finger can only be pointed at the producers.
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Morbo
Guest
Good point you bring up about ben, and on that note..
Has Ben learnt anything from the amount of bullying and abuse he went through while growing up? ..because he seemed to be very quick to dish it out to Estelle in the first few weeks of the house, when it was the hip thing to do that is.
PS- again, nobody knows what Estelles hard life is due to.. and we dont even know how or in what context she brings it up.. all we have is 'here-say' occasionally from some housemates (who also happen to greatly dislike her) who may bias things to suite their feelings of dislike for her anyway!
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micky
Guest
I don't think there's been a post of yours that I don't concur with. Your take on Estelle is precisely how I feel and I have known many people like Estelle. To me, she is not at all intriguing for the very reason that she has to try and point out all these apparently mysterious features she has. Something is not mysterious if you are constantly hinting at or even explicitly acknowledging its existence (particularly when it doesn't exist).
Then when you observe her actual behaviour, she is clearly just an immature, awkward and rather unintelligent person. I feel as if there is a clear motivation behind all of what she says. I'm not saying she is playing the game, but everything seems quite scripted and unnatural just because I think she is seriously lacking in social intelligence. It's actually astounding to me that she is 24.
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micky
Guest
It's the comments like "I'd need a day to explain what I've been through" which frustrate me. I can't stand when people try to flaunt how hard their life is and, as is the case with Estelle, try to inspire others to think there is something to them that might actually make them appear somewhat intriguing.
Most of us with trauma in our lives try to steer clear of drawing attention to it, particularly when dealing with people we don't know all that well.
I'm not saying she hasn't had problems, but when someone feels the need to emphasise them, you question why they brings them to light, or, how severe those problems really were.
Most of us with trauma in our lives try to steer clear of drawing attention to it, particularly when dealing with people we don't know all that well.
I'm not saying she hasn't had problems, but when someone feels the need to emphasise them, you question why they brings them to light, or, how severe those problems really were.
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She's awkward and immature but there's no way you can say she's unintelligent. Unless you call basically everyone in the house quivering piles of gelatinous mass.
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supermonster
Guest
All my comments are based on the idea that I'm describing what I see and hear within the proscenium arch of what Ch 9 deigns to offer us, not real people. Even with the live feeds of past years I've always worked from the assumption that I'm describing abstractions based on real people. It's an edited show and that's what we have to work with.
There has been discussion among HMs about hearing Estelle mention her hard life but no detail to gauge it by. That was my impression and I've seen others mention the same thing.
It's an inference that's strongly implied. As with much on BB, there's no certainty.
I can't specifically recall the actual conversations, though. And it would be a lot of footage to trawl through to find it. There's been talk of Estelle's hard life but nothing of substance to help us understand what is meant by that. The lack of detail has presented some confusion. That's why the subject of her material life has come into focus. We, and even the HMs who've heard the hard life claim as far as I can glean, are scratching our heads as to its basis.
Is this unfair to Estelle, or even, "Estelle"? I dunno. Maybe. But it's a far cry and infinitely more evidence based than nonsense like the assertion that Ben is the reincarnation of Hitler.
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micky
Guest
I said "rather unintelligent", and I think she is. I think Michael and Ben are definitely smarter than she is, but yes, on the whole, the house probably doesn't consist of the sharpest tools in the shed.
There is little to measure intelligence from but based on her input in certain conversations, her clear lack of social intelligence and the fact that she thinks a whale is a fish, I do not think she is very smart at all. There are plenty of dumb law students in this world.
In the early weeks when they actually showed more of conversations which weren't restricted to people bitching. There was a bunch of stuff with her and Bradley discussing all sorts of things from politics to science. She seemed quite switched on. Although various house mates like Angie and Josh were discouraging that sort of discussion because they had nothing to ad and didn't like that coming out.
I think you're judging more the maturity of age and social intelligence. Also, although for some reason people here like to rubbish it. You need a certain level of intelligence to be doing a Law Degree. It's all reading, writing, comprehension and logic.
Michael is a "genius", but has no time of day for anyone who thinks different or would question him.
Ben is very switched on but I think it's age and social intelligence.
The Rest, Ray had to be quite intelligent. Bradley seems switched on, but there's something off there. I don't like to judge.. too much. However why hasn't he got any goal, plans ambitions beyond continuing to work at his folks supermarket? Not necessarily anything wrong with that. It's just curious and doesn't fit. Makes me wonder if he just has a good general knowledge for his age. Although from some of his conversations with Estelle, they clearly both have gone out of their way to learn about some stuff you wouldn't normally pick up.
The rest, I don't think any have displayed really any intelligence.
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:pp
Guest
You seem to have considerable insight. Not always the case but people that particularly want a law degree for social justice, human rights reasons, as she seems to, can come from abuse situations. They want to save others from what they've been through. Her dad an abusive alcoholic? My money's on that.
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micky
Guest
I don't think I am. I can recall what conversations you speak of and I have to disagree. Even if they talk about more meaningful things, it doesn't mean they have anything meaningful to say about the topic. Or, in other words, the fact that you're willing to talk about topics composed of more abstract ideas doesn't mean you have much capacity for abstract thought. From what I recall, her observations in those topics were completely banal (for lack of a better word). I therefore question how well she could properly debate a topic with someone. I mean, if Michael said to me what he said to Estelle (that whole "if beer didn't exist" crap) I would immediately shoot him down for making completely inane points.
But we are making these comments from only brief snippets. I definitely agree with what you say about Ray, Ben and Bradley.
I study Law and can assure you there are plenty of surprisingly unintelligent people, and this is at the highest or second highest Uni in Melbourne.
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Dayne
Guest
I'm going to narrow it down to her high school days, maybe she was bullied which caused her to drop out of school. That could be hard but that's probably the reality of it.
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micky
Guest
She's studying at University, so no, that's not it.
She dropped out of school. Went back later, finished it and then went to uni.
Although I think the dropping out of school was one of those hanging out with the wrong crowd, not attending ect.
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micky
Guest
Oh, fair enough, my mistake.