Big Brother US Rewatch Thread

[Kingston]

Mike: The decision to cast him for All Stars is definitely a choice, I understand why but Big Brother history would be a lot better off had he just remained a forgotten early boot on Big Brother 2.

IIRC it wasn’t so much of a choice as Will wouldn’t agree to All-Stars without him and All-Stars wouldn’t have been All-Stars without Will.

 

[Kingston]

Bunky: He is probably the closest thing to Benjamin Zabel that the US version gets to. On one hand, he was very likeable and the most positively edited player on the cast, but he was also incredibly babied by the cast and was a very weak player. His storyline opens with his coming out to players like Autumn and Mike which was very positive, as well as his friendship that had formed with Kent, but then he became a bit of a background player who just did what he was told. He was always in a good position with the house, everyone did seem to like him, but through his association with Kent, he was pretty much a dead man walking from the final 6 onwards. Had someone other than Nicole won the Final 6 HOH he would have gone. Once Kent had been evicted, he was expecting to go, and his game just stops in its tracks. He even admits to being “a puppet for Nicole” even though he was one of the bigger jury threats left in the game once Krista leaves.

There are positives to his game, such as his social positioning and win equity, but he had no agency. But he was a positive character on the season, and I did like that the gay guy in this cast was not your conventional stereotype of what they would choose. To me, he stuck out more as his own type of character who was just a sensitive pushover, who eventually stuck out as a threat. I don’t love that by the end he sanctimoniously voted against Will at the end, but I feel like he would have a different perspective on the game today and I would argue he should have been in All-Stars over Mike. I seriously hope to god though that if his dream of returning to the show happened, he would first shave his back.

Best way for me to describe Bunky is the anti-Richard Hatch.

I also agree back hair .

I had to laugh when Julie called him a strong player in his eviction interview… The few wins he got under his belt were pure luck and how low budget/simplistic they were. He’d likely only stand a chance at winning anything in future seasons by being desperate enough to pull a Chicken George.

 

[Kingston]

Nicole: Apart from the season’s victor she was undoubtedly the most complex character with the most interesting arc. In week 1 it is made clear her abrasive personality was hard for everyone to live with, and she was put into the immediate position of a dead woman walking. She then did well to secure bonds with those who felt outcasted by Chilltown and managed to secure her position within the opposing alliance. She wasn’t necessarily positioned the best, as she was on the bottom of the TOP alliance, but she managed to avoid being a target in the near future. Her dominance of the game truly starts once Hardy and her begin winning back-to-back-to-back competitions and Chilltown had been decimated. Her bond with Hardy assured her safety and I think her friendship with Hardy whilst genuine, was also astutely used to her benefit.

What is the most interesting to me is her love/hate relationship with Will. At the midpoint in the season, she agrees to make a deal with him to ensure she and Hardy keep him until the final 3. Which has evidently proven to be her blind spot in the game and probably her most questionable move. Whilst yes, her thinking that he was an easy beat in the game was not a wrong assumption in theory, I think she failed to actually realise just how poor she was as a winner candidate herself. It was clear in the edit that she was hard to live with, and that many jury members actively did not want her to win. She had also aligned herself far too close to Hardy in my mind which did harm a lot of her jury chances. And whilst she did hold a lot of control within the evicting part of the game, but once Kent was evicted, she lost the game. She had no way of winning as she would have to every single person left. Whilst she was thinking of how to manoeuvre through the game, I feel like she was too focused on getting to the end rather than getting to the end and having a winning chance. I just felt like there was also a lot of contradiction within her game, she kept saying she promised her husband Jeff she would do whatever it took to get her the win, yet she wanted to go to the end with Hardy. Who she very easily loses to.

And on the subject of her husband, let’s talk about it. On the edited show there appears a banner supposedly from her husband that flies over the house that reads something along the lines of Jeff being hurt about something she did with Will in the hot tub. The show portrays it as if nothing happened and the cast even claims the situation was overblown. But I did some deep diving and serious research and came across a Reddit post that outlines what happened. And it appears the entire group got drunk and amid the raunchy activities, Nicole allegedly gave Will a foot job after repeatedly trying to see his penis. What a wild time watching feeds would have been back then lmao.

As a character I found myself being hot and cold with her. I appreciated her presence and contributions to the show but did find her irritating. It was her personality that annoyed me per se, it was just her cockiness and sore loser attitude that pissed me off. She got a bit of a big head once she had secured power after evicting Krista, but she was painful to watch whenever something did not go her way. It was really funny to watch her adult tantrum when she lost the final 4 HOH which she so desperately needed. She is still a very fascinating character to watch play the game, it is super fun to watch her go from potentially being a bottom-tier first boot to slowly working her way up to the top, only to then lose in the end by the series’ protagonist. I would say she is a player who was before her time and her loss did help emphasise the importance of jury management and also highlight that getting to the end is one thing but positioning yourself to get there and also win is another. I would love to see how she would play today in the modern game, it’s a shame it’s never eventuated and likely never will either.

Nicole’s game highlights the brilliance of the early seasons and how they really had no roadmap to follow in terms of strategy or at very least it was limited. Her cockiness is completely different than cocky players in the modern era.

Also her very obvious lack of jury management is a reason I loath the whole Danielle was robbed narrative.

 

[Kingston]

Dr Will: I have so much to say about him that the thought of writing it all down caused me to avoid actually opening up my laptop and doing so for two whole days after finishing the season. I will start by saying that I had always said Big Brother US’ format was inferior to the original premise of the show, and that having the contestants vote each other out results in boring winners and uninteresting results. Well, Dr. Will Kirby well and truly challenges my thought process as he is quite possibly my favourite Big Brother winner of all time. And I do mean that. Big Brother 2 on its own is already a fantastic season, I probably couldn’t even pick between it and BBAU2001 if I took bias out of it, and the fact that Will wins it, just makes it all the better. And the best part is, how in the fucking world did this man not only win the show but also won the first show. Comparing BBUK and BBAU, Will is the type of winner who would not arise as a champion until almost a decade into the show. And if the format that I am a massive proponent of was used he would very likely have been evicted early anyway. His win is so narratively pleasing that I can’t even believe it’s real.

I have read many people on Reddit and on podcasts state that Nicole should have won against Will and whilst I will give Nicole credit for what she achieved, I just cannot agree with that statement. And yes, I do look at a player's in-game position as one of the biggest factors in how I would assess players in social strategy games, but Nicole was not necessarily poisoned better than Will to win the game. As I mentioned Nicole’s only shot at winning once TOP had succeeded in almost destroying Chilltown was if she were at the end with Kent. Will at least had an obvious win against Nicole, but he could have also easily beaten Kent and Hardy IMO. And had Chilltown had the comps go their way and he ended up with Mike or Shannon at the end alongside him, he more than likely would win against either of them. The man had win equity despite being hated by half the house. And just like Nicole he also worked his way from a poor position to a better position to where he was sitting very likely to win once he evicted Hardy. Once Monica had lost part 2 of the HOH comp, Will had won. I don’t think it’s fair to rank Will as a worse player than Nicole in BB2 due to lack of dominance since he did better than she did at actively securing himself a winning position in my mind.

Whilst I do give him credit, I cannot pretend like his first half of gameplay was great. If anyone from TOP had won that week 2 HOH comp, then Dr Will would have been evicted in week 2 and never would have become the legend he is today. He got very lucky there and also got very lucky that Shannon was happy to fall on her sword for him, although he probably stays nominated beside her regardless anyway. And he then got lucky again that someone as unpredictable as Kent got HOH the week Mike went home. But in fairness to Will, he has to be given credit for arguably handling relationships with these HOHs better than his allies. I think Will did take a while to realise that he does need to care about the other players to succeed, but once he does, he very humbly submits to a position of no power and even plays up to it and demonstrates perfect threat management. He very astutely observed who the power players were in Nicole and Hardy and managed to establish bonds before securing a deal with them to keep him safe. He managed to allow himself to sneak through the middle section of the game whilst the TOP alliance crumbled, and then he was also able to let the duo in power take out threats for him and leave little blood on his hands. And my favourite move of his was when he threw the HOH comp at the final 4 and secured himself all the power, he needed to oust Hardy and ensure he had the win set up from there.

His game was super fun and interesting whilst also risky. And I love that he chose to go along this route of being unapologetically evil and openly admitting to lying. And the fact that he was everyone’s biggest enemy and was the one to take down the cocky duo, it’s just so pleasing. He is an absolute master of reading and analysing social hierarchies it seems. I firmly believe everything he did was calculated and purposeful. He knew exactly how to rectify himself with the jury and that was to be the one to take down the pair no one wanted to see win. And it all ended up working perfectly. Now of course, he also got extremely lucky that Hardy was ineligible to compete in the final 4 HOH which ensured his chance of victory would increase, but he still actively made use of any situation at any point which solidifies the confidence I have in him as a player. He pioneered the game that we know today, and many players after him have used him as a blueprint. I love his philosophy on how winning competitions does nothing more than make you a threat and burn people. And I do agree with him. The basic concept of this game is human chess and he’s able to actually perfect it whilst still being his obnoxious self.

As a character, he is fantastic, even aside from his gameplay. He’s fun, he’s hilarious, he’s polarising, he’s energetic, he’s obnoxious, he’s arrogant and he’s just plain and simply good TV. He knows how to ham it up to the cameras, but he does so whilst being genuine about it and having fun. It’s so fascinating to watch someone be such a dick yet be so charming at the same time. It is so weird to watch. He knows how to piss people off but can also reel them back in instantly. It is insane. He is a master at human manipulation and coercion, and I would love to find out where he developed these skills. And it’s not a bad thing that he was sexy as all hell. I very much look forward to watching him play again on All-Stars, which is my favourite US season. He is without doubt my favourite houseguest on Big Brother 2, and is in my opinion the best player of all.

I’m the same… Will is the BB GOAT. IMO we don’t have a Dan without Will having pioneered that archetype/strategy in both BB2 and All-Stars. Will could have easily been a two time winner had he desired to be one and not played his shot in favour of Mike. Dan only stood a chance at a second win if he’d succeeded in taking a far weaker player to the final 2.

 

[Zcsund1234]

IIRC it wasn’t so much of a choice as Will wouldn’t agree to All-Stars without him and All-Stars wouldn’t have been All-Stars without Will.

I have read this before now that I think about it. It’s a bit disappointing, but I’d rather Will be there than not. Agree though that without will there is no all stars.

Best way for me to describe Bunky is the anti-Richard Hatch.

A hilarious and apt description lmao.

Nicole’s game highlights the brilliance of the early seasons and how they really had no roadmap to follow in terms of strategy or at very least it was limited. Her cockiness is completely different than cocky players in the modern era.

Also her very obvious lack of jury management is a reason I loath the whole Danielle was robbed narrative.

I also love that aspect. It’s way more fun watching early seasons include players creating different strategies whether they are winning ones or losing ones. Now everyone just uses old players’ games as a guide and sometimes flat out copy it. Don’t even get me started on how many women on survivor claim to be the 73rd version of Parvati. As much as I love having these still air the longer they go on the less innovative strategies occur.

I’m the same… Will is the BB GOAT. IMO we don’t have a Dan without Will having pioneered that archetype/strategy in both BB2 and All-Stars. Will could have easily been a two time winner had he desired to be one and not played his shot in favour of Mike. Dan only stood a chance at a second win if he’d succeeded in taking a far weaker player to the final 2.

100% agree on this. I don’t buy into Dan being better than Will. Will can charm a jury regardless of how hard he plays, everyone credits Dan for his funeral move yet he had almost the entire jury against him. A social game is won by making a jury want you to win. Not he against you.

 

[Kingston]

100% agree on this. I don’t buy into Dan being better than Will. Will can charm a jury regardless of how hard he plays, everyone credits Dan for his funeral move yet he had almost the entire jury against him. A social game is won by making a jury want you to win. Not he against you.

Ok so wasn't Dan's funeral just a re-jig of Will's I hate you all speech?

 

[Zcsund1234]

Ok so wasn't Dan's funeral just a re-jig of Will's I hate you all speech?

And yet Will was able to survive and would have won probably unanimously against most people without even trying as hard as Dan did to make a spectacle out of the performance

 

[Zcsund1234]

Gonna get started on my BB3 watch tonight. I remember really enjoying the series when I watched it, especially because it was the only series I watched not knowing who won. I loved Danielle as a player and her arc throughout the season. And I loved many other members of the cast. I look forward to viewing it through an analytical lense this time.

 

[Kingston]

Gonna get started on my BB3 watch tonight. I remember really enjoying the series when I watched it, especially because it was the only series I watched not knowing who won. I loved Danielle as a player and her arc throughout the season. And I loved many other members of the cast. I look forward to viewing it through an analytical lense this time.

22 years later and I’m still thirsty AF for Roddy

 

[Zcsund1234]

22 years later and I’m still thirsty AF for Roddy

Ew LOL I hated him. I remember you telling you liked him when I watched it. I still can't believe thats almost 4 years ago.

Watching the first episode was different this time, I remember that I really devalued Lisa as a player and winner and wrote her off very early. But from what they've shown on the show she was switched on and ready to play from the get go.

 

[Kingston]

Ew LOL I hated him. I remember you telling you liked him when I watched it. I still can't believe thats almost 4 years ago.

Watching the first episode was different this time, I remember that I really devalued Lisa as a player and winner and wrote her off very early. But from what they've shown on the show she was switched on and ready to play from the get go.

I understand from a game perspective how someone could hate him but physically that man is daddy AF… And those eyes .

As for Lisa aside from her showmance putting a big target on her back she still had her finger on the pulse and was far from the coaster people make her out to be. That said not voting Eric back in the game was really were she started to shine as a player. Danielle truly underestimated how keeping Lisa as her number 3 and her ability to take power when she needed it could come back to bite her in the end.

 

[Zcsund1234]

I understand from a game perspective how someone could hate him but physically that man is daddy AF… And those eyes .

As for Lisa aside from her showmance putting a big target on her back she still had her finger on the pulse and was far from the coaster people make her out to be. That said not voting Eric back in the game was really were she started to shine as a player. Danielle truly underestimated how keeping Lisa as her number 3 and her ability to take power when she needed it could come back to bite her in the end.

Even at the time of watching I did heavily question Danielle and Jason's decision to keep Lisa over Amy. Danielle still would have lost to Jason regardless, but the decision itself to me seemed to clear. It's one of the reasons why I rank Tyler from BB20 as the better player to have not won over her. It could be argued that Jason actually does better more times than Danielle on repeat seasons.

 

[Kingston]

Even at the time of watching I did heavily question Danielle and Jason's decision to keep Lisa over Amy. Danielle still would have lost to Jason regardless, but the decision itself to me seemed to clear. It's one of the reasons why I rank Tyler from BB20 as the better player to have not won over her. It could be argued that Jason actually does better more times than Danielle on repeat seasons.

Maybe it’s just my foggy memory but I don’t remember Danielle even having a remote shot at winning in All-Stars. Aside from Mike the only person who aligned with Will that season who could have pulled off a win would have been Janelle.

While I could never see Lisa as a two time winner I’d much rather she made the cast over someone like Erica. I think if we saw her again people would be more inclined to give her at least a shred of the respect she deserves.

 

[Zcsund1234]

Maybe it’s just my foggy memory but I don’t remember Danielle even having a remote shot at winning in All-Stars. Aside from Mike the only person who aligned with Will that season who could have pulled off a win would have been Janelle.

While I could never see Lisa as a two time winner I’d much rather she made the cast over someone like Erica. I think if we saw her again people would be more inclined to give her at least a shred of the respect she deserves.

It would be interesting to see how her winning chances would alter if Will wasn't there. But yeah, with Janelle's competition performance I don't think BB7 was Danielle's to win.

I liked Erika as a person, but she is easily the most replaceable member on All Stars. I think Lisa deserves a second chance to show herself. Maybe one day it'll happen. I'd be down for a returnee season of Big Brother again. Most other fans don't seem that keen though.

 

[Kingston]

It would be interesting to see how her winning chances would alter if Will wasn't there. But yeah, with Janelle's competition performance I don't think BB7 was Danielle's to win.

I liked Erika as a person, but she is easily the most replaceable member on All Stars. I think Lisa deserves a second chance to show herself. Maybe one day it'll happen. I'd be down for a returnee season of Big Brother again. Most other fans don't seem that keen though.

The only way I’d like to see a returning players season is a cast that has a decent amount of old school players if not a majority.