Alpha male

Sweetgeek

Well-Known Member
To me Tim doesn't strike me as an alpha type so I wouldn't call him that. However he did fall on that 'role' in the house once, as you said, the 'cool kids' realised their perception of the house dynamics did not match that of the outside voting viewers.

It was at that point that there was a 'begrudging' fear and resentment against Tim for 'controlling' the game (i.e. Heidi turning against him for no good apparent reason, jealousy was probably where it mostly stemmed from).

They knew he was made out of Teflon and had to be careful how they interacted with him as by that stage they had figured out Tim was a favourite on the outside evidenced by the the fact that anybody who a 'confrontation' came out second best via being voted out. Hence why Ed started the half cocked 'smear' campaign against Tim that inevitably was to no avail.

Yeah I don't actually see him as the traditional alpha male in that sense, but for the debate in this thread, I wasn't sure how to categorise him either. So for arguments sake I say alpha male.

The problem with ed remaining in the house was that some of the hms then categorized two divisions in the house- a good and bad side. this was championed by the hms who perceived ed as the good, and when he was gone and footage released of him putting jade up, it was then that jade realized that maybe the good side was always with Tim. I say maybe because she still needed to talk to ed about what happened before actually giving up on him. So basically ed was still considered in a way the alpha male, up until his eviction, and it was then that Tim was seen as 'alpha male'.
 

Connoisseur

Well-Known Member
Yeah I don't actually see him as the traditional alpha male in that sense, but for the debate in this thread, I wasn't sure how to categorise him either. So for arguments sake I say alpha male.

The problem with ed remaining in the house was that some of the hms then categorized two divisions in the house- a good and bad side. this was championed by the hms who perceived ed as the good, and when he was gone and footage released of him putting jade up, it was then that jade realized that maybe the good side was always with Tim. I say maybe because she still needed to talk to ed about what happened before actually giving up on him. So basically ed was still considered in a way the alpha male, up until his eviction, and it was then that Tim was seen as 'alpha male'.
Another way that I'd put it was that for Group Dynamic purposes Ed, Matt and Caleb where recognised as the alpha dogs by the majority of hms.

However for TV game purposes it eventually became evident that Tim was the Top Dog (voting viewers decision), albeit reluctantly and not without a fight from the cool kids.
 

Sweetgeek

Well-Known Member
Another way that I'd put it was that for Group Dynamic purposes Ed, Matt and Caleb where recognised as the alpha dogs by the majority of hms.

However for TV game purposes it eventually became evident that Tim was the Top Dog (voting viewers decision), albeit reluctantly and not without a fight from the cool kids.
I think you categorized it perfectly.

to get back on topic...

The girls make the decision of deciding who the alpha male is I find, and the small glimpses we see, ryan and dion are getting their attention
 
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chumly

Well-Known Member
I think some people are confused about what an Alpha actually is. It's not necessarily the most popular, or the ultimate winner, it's the highest ranking person in the pecking order as recognised (either consciously or not) by the other people in the social hierarchy. I don't think Tim last year was ever the Alpha Male. People didn't defer to him, respect him, seek his approval or advice. I don't think it was ever Ed either - the other guys always seemed to keep him slightly on the outer. While he was there, I think it was Matt - he knew it and was totally arrogant about it, which was his downfall. There's the hugest mistake you can make in the house, getting too involved in the house dynamics and your place in the social structure at the expense of your public perception. Tim kept his eye on the prize.

It's so hard to tell with the pitiful scraps of info we have so far. If we were able to see more footage of those integral first hours, it would probably be pretty clear who the Alpha Male is (or who is trying to be). I do agree that Ryan has ambitions at the very least to be the AM. Isn't he friends with Matt in real life? Did he not learn anything from Matt's gigantic miscalculation of his own awesomeness? Anyway, Ryan is a tool. I had him pegged as one as soon as he started calling Travis "Travie" on stage. That is such a transparent attempt to assume social dominance, and really disrespectful and arrogant. As all aspiring AMs must do, he's also trying to pick out the weak and vulnerable - in this case Lawson, for being a latecomer, quirky and a non-traditional male in some ways, and generally easygoing. But if he gains too much popularity in the group, Ryan will ease off and target someone else.

He keeps on banging on about having three sisters, as though that makes him special (I have two, do I win a Nobel prize?), and perhaps he's always seen himself as the rooster in the hen house and wants to continue strutting around swinging his balls like the Biggest Cock in the house. I hope someone knocks him off his perch really soon, and I hope that someone is Priya. Not that we'd know, since we're being drip-fed heavily edited snippets, but I'd say the period where they're all just circling each other and sussing each other out is coming to an end and there will be conflict soon. Let's see who ends up on top. It might come as a surprise to posturing dicks like Ryan, but social groups can actually function perfectly well without an Alpha Male.
 

Connoisseur

Well-Known Member
Exactly.
[email protected] being the alpha male, his insecurities made him totally Beta.

In the outside world yest, that's probably the correct assumption. Ed came across as too much of an inoffensive 'nice' guy ( I know, I know he led on Jade but mostly because he spineless and did not want to hurt his 'good' guy image and thereby his potential post BB opportunities and not out of any deliberate malice) to be perceived as a true alpha especially given the footy background he comes from, where stronger personality affirmative males exist.

But whilst in the house he had enough ass-kissing sycophants (Heidi, Jade, Jazz, etc..) to be considered one of the main alpha leaders in that surreal small Group Dynamic.
 

chumly

Well-Known Member
In the outside world yest, that's probably the correct assumption. Ed came across as too much of an inoffensive 'nice' guy ( I know, I know he led on Jade but mostly because he spineless and did not want to hurt his 'good' guy image and thereby his potential post BB opportunities and not out of any deliberate malice) to be perceived as a true alpha especially given the footy background he comes from, where stronger personality more affirmative males exist.

But whilst in the house he had enough ass-kissing sycophants (Heidi, Jade, Jazz, etc..) to be considered one of the main alpha leaders in that surreal small Group Dynamic.

But he never had the guys kissing his arse, Matt did. Particularly Caleb. Also, Matt's disciples lasted longer in the house to bolster his self-importance. Ed's got booted, except for Jade. Ed also had prominent males who distrusted and disrespected him; Matt less so.
 

caz71

Active Member
Ryan looks like a bogan. That hairstyle is 90s[DOUBLEPOST=1410399975][/DOUBLEPOST]Ryan looks like a bogan. That hairstyle is 90s
 

Sorceress

..Bow Down To Thee..
I think some people are confused about what an Alpha actually is. It's not necessarily the most popular, or the ultimate winner, it's the highest ranking person in the pecking order as recognised (either consciously or not) by the other people in the social hierarchy. I don't think Tim last year was ever the Alpha Male. People didn't defer to him, respect him, seek his approval or advice. I don't think it was ever Ed either - the other guys always seemed to keep him slightly on the outer. While he was there, I think it was Matt - he knew it and was totally arrogant about it, which was his downfall. There's the hugest mistake you can make in the house, getting too involved in the house dynamics and your place in the social structure at the expense of your public perception. Tim kept his eye on the prize.
.
I thought it was the most popular, they're the leaders of the pack and everybody follows their lead...that's what I got anyway.
Could agree with Matt.
It's all pretty subjective though.
 

Connoisseur

Well-Known Member
But he never had the guys kissing his arse, Matt did. Particularly Caleb. Also, Matt's disciples lasted longer in the house to bolster his self-importance. Ed's got booted, except for Jade. Ed also had prominent males who distrusted and disrespected him; Matt less so.
But he never had the guys kissing his arse,

I never said he did. :)

Matt did.
But in the end Ed outlasted all the stereotypical alpha contenders and I believe that was mostly due to the fact he was more popular among the housemates, particularly the females who anointed him as their 'Prince Charming'. lmao :D

I'm not arguing that Ed was the MAIN leader of the pack ( he didn't have, let alone lead, a male crew) but he was definitely one of several who had a cult there eating out of his hands. *smh* @ the female hms who fawned excessively over this guy, it was absolutely cringeworthy and embarrassing. :rolleyes:

I'm sure glad that this year's females have up to this point shown a little bit more self-respect. :)
 

chumly

Well-Known Member
I thought it was the most popular, they're the leaders of the pack and everybody follows their lead...that's what I got anyway.
Could agree with Matt.
It's all pretty subjective though.

It's about respect, or even fear. You can have a clown-type or a kind nurturing type who is universally popular, but who doesn't garner the respect or deference of an Alpha. Some people might secretly resent or dislike an Alpha, but won't say so out of fear of losing their own place in the group. That's how pecking orders work, not out of popularity, genuine friendship and fun, but out of fear, stragtegy and tension, even if petty and low-level.
 

Sorceress

..Bow Down To Thee..
It's about respect, or even fear. You can have a clown-type or a kind nurturing type who is universally popular, but who doesn't garner the respect or deference of an Alpha. Some people might secretly resent or dislike an Alpha, but won't say so out of fear of losing their own place in the group. That's how pecking orders work, not out of popularity, genuine friendship and fun, but out of fear, stragtegy and tension, even if petty and low-level.
But see that's what I got from Tim last season?
 

chumly

Well-Known Member
I never said he did. :)


But in the end Ed outlasted all the stereotypical alpha contenders and I believe that was mostly due to the fact he was more popular among the housemates, particularly the females who anointed him as their 'Prince Charming'. lmao :D

I'm not arguing that Ed was the MAIN leader of the pack ( he didn't have, let alone lead, a male crew) but he was definitely one of several who had a cult there eating out of his hands. *smh* @ the female hms who fawned excessively over this guy, it was absolutely cringeworthy and embarrassing. :rolleyes:

I'm sure glad that this year's females have up to this point shown a little bit more self-respect. :)

My point is, you can't be an Alpha Male without recognition from the other males in the social group. You said Ed had enough people kiss his arse to be considered "one of the main alpha leaders", but listed only females (all but one evicted early). Also, there is only ever one Alpha by definition. You might have several contenders, but ultimately only one. I never really thought of Ed even as a contender. If the competition had been fiercer, Matt wouldn't have ended up at the top. My dream is always that when intruders go in, they put in a true Alpha to shake things up, but they never do!
 

Sweetgeek

Well-Known Member
good point, to be recognized as the alpha male, you need to be seen as one from the male population. In this case, matt was seen in his group dynamic by the other males as their leader
 

chumly

Well-Known Member
But see that's what I got from Tim last season?

Well he was a master strategist for sure, but he wasn't really respected even by his friends in the house. He chose to play the clown, whether by strategy or by nature, and ultimately it worked! But if there was a crisis in the house, if someone was upset or feeling despondent, if anyone needed advice or a tough decision to be made, or someone was seeking approval, or hoping to bolster their position in the social hierarchy, would the other HMs have deferred to Tim? I really don't think so, because he wasn't an AM. At some stages in the game he was mocked and ostracised.
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
It's about respect, or even fear. You can have a clown-type or a kind nurturing type who is universally popular, but who doesn't garner the respect or deference of an Alpha. Some people might secretly resent or dislike an Alpha, but won't say so out of fear of losing their own place in the group. That's how pecking orders work, not out of popularity, genuine friendship and fun, but out of fear, stragtegy and tension, even if petty and low-level.
In BB 2 or 3Tim and Dean had that struggle, where Dean was the acknowledged alpha, but Tim didn't respect his authority any more than Drew and Tim did last year with their "meat heads". It seemed to drive Dean wild that this person he perceived as weak had no fear or respect for him.
 
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