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Estelle appreacian thread (i can't spell)

supermonster said:
The indication is in Michael's explanation. I can only go by that. We're discussing Michael's frustration with Estelle. It doesn't sound resolved to me. You can speculate about what might have happened but what we don't have is any indication at this stage that she understood.
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Immediate you have to treat one persons side of events with some bias.

What I see is Michael is just in a defensive pissed off mode that he is worried he looked bad. Going out of his way to have a go at Estelle. She's an idiot because he might have looked bad.



supermonster said:
Being called a racist doesn't just make you look bad in the moment. There's nothing in what he says that leads to a conclusion that he's just firing off about a fragment of conversation since resolved. All indication is of the opposite. It sounds like Estelle has pissed him off by stubbornly maintaining her bullshit.
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She never called him a racist.

It's all Michael's worry and concern. All she said was that the joke was "unnecessary and offensive" and she's "heard it twice already."

We have his version of events. No where does she say she didn't get his point. No where does she say he's a bigot. All we know from her side was that she didn't appreciate the joke. In any context. There is nothing wrong with that, she is not thick or an idiot for that.


supermonster said:
But he wasn't just telling a racist joke. It came up in a discussion about racism. It sounds like she's grasped an opportunity to sound like she's on higher ground on the issue. As Michael says he told her:

"You are not making me out to be this person right now. I'm purely telling a story. There was a discourse occurring that you weren't aware of and now you're not going to paint me to be a bigot."
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Where does it say they were discussing racism?

I can just as easily assume Brad was wanting Michael to tell an offensive joke from the comments we've heard.


The story is perfectly fine to tell with out saying the racist joke. Estelle doesn't think it was necessary as it's offensive. There is nothing wrong with that.



supermonster said:
You're in no position to guarantee anything. Unless we see the clip we'll never know for sure. I'm just trying to understand why Estelle is disliked in the house and I'm getting an indication in the clip we have.
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Seeing you like to expand your assumptions as fact. It seems perfectly reasonable I can give my opinion on what went down. Especially as I don't label or discuss it as fact.


supermonster said:
It sounds more like he's upset she was too passive a listener. She listened only so far as she could big note herself on the subject of racism. He doesn't like that his words have been used against him by Estelle's cheap one-upmanship. It's about racism. That's upsetting.
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As passive listen is someone who just sits and listens, doesn't get involved challenge ect. She responded ergo not passive and being an active listener.


All we know is, she didn't think it was necessary for him to repeat the most offensive joke he has heard. In any context of telling it, it's fine for her to not think it needs repeating. It doesn't make her an idiot.



Also on another level, she's a frigging law student. Do you really think she'd last long studying law if she was such a base level idiot as Michael makes out. Studying Law is all about understanding things. What judges mean, how to interpret statute and precedent, the principles behind the law and the words ect. Michael think he's a genius and has no time or room for anyone else's opinion and doesn't think he should ever have to explain his.
 
What we know for sure is that we've only get to hear/see Micheal's version of story telling (bitching). And the fact that he clearly dislike Estelle the most out of the all HMs.

Must be a pretty hard life in the BB house having the King of Clubs dislike you lol
 
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up_all_night said:
He didn't explain it last time. That was the point of the video. He was saying he wasn't going to bite his tongue this time.

It's just part of the whole, listen to me. I am right. If you have anything to say or question me. Don't because I am smart, you are dumb.

You are automatically dumb and an idiot if you question him or offer a different opinion.
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I meant perhaps Estelle thought that he had made his point when he initially used the joke as an illustration. The re-telling of it was unnecessary in her opinion...point already made and noted sort of thing? Whatever the case, it seems Michael takes exception to anything she says.
 
Sephrenia said:
I meant perhaps Estelle thought that he had made his point when he initially used the joke as an illustration. The re-telling of it was unnecessary in her opinion...point already made and noted sort of thing? Whatever the case, it seems Michael takes exception to anything she says.
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That's totally part of it.

Too bad we'll never see the clip.
 
She never called him a racist.

It's all Michael's worry and concern. All she said was that the joke was "unnecessary and offensive" and she's "heard it twice already."
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By stating that it is unnecessary and offensive and I've heard it twice already is her way of indicating to Michael that she thinks it is racist. Michael knows it is racist as he apparently raised in the context of 'racist things' - I am of the school of thought that she just heard the bad joke and went off without trying to find out why said joke had been told.
 
estelle is stuburn , thats what josh said

guess thats a cocky man thing, they love a bit of challenge, but at the end of the day, they need to be the winner. a stuburn woman sure is annoying. the rest of the girls, however bitchy they are towards each other or the boys behind their back, they all sort of melt in front of them. BB was trying to paint estelle to be the clingy sort not that long ago. but from the dislike she received from all the boys, yes i mean all of them, as dire situation as ray was in, he didnt even team up with her, i can say she DOES go against the male teaching in the house.

back to the joke itself, i would say neither of them are in the wrong. a uni student's view and a copywriter's take on the world is very very very different. i think the uni students without experiencing the daily grind of bills and bills and bills and bills, are quite left-ish (peter costello was a memeber of the student labor party in uni!!!), estelle who is passionate about law and justice will no doubt take that up another notch. i can she how she reacted the way she reacted, not because she wanted to look PC, but simply because she is at this stage of her life.

while michael on the other hand, working in the industry he is working in, he has more worldly experience, and is wary of the idealist that estelle is. the joke incident just brought this to the head.

when people's belief clashes, there is no right and wrong, just agree to disagree and move on.michael being the more mature one, should have point that out, that would put him in a higher place.
 
Some very good points there Miranda, I especially like the comparison between the idealistic uni student and the more experience copywriter. Good call.
 
Worldly experience? Yeah somehow I doubt Michael's got much, can't even drive ffs.
And look at how he's responded to Ava.

I agree with UAN, Estelle didn't agree with him and it irked him.
But Estelle could have said anything and it would have irked him.
 
ichi said:
By stating that it is unnecessary and offensive and I've heard it twice already is her way of indicating to Michael that she thinks it is racist. Michael knows it is racist as he apparently raised in the context of 'racist things' - I am of the school of thought that she just heard the bad joke and went off without trying to find out why said joke had been told.
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You're grasping at straws.
 
Anyone else think tonights show didn't show much of Estelle. More just others talking about her.

I hope all the Ava scenes weren't to try and keep her, she's nice but she needs to go (face it Angie's staying...)
 
sav0001 said:
He said he can't drive, he just said he hasn't even gone for his Learners yet?
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Actually that's getting more and more common. Especially for people who live inner city.

Although generally he's in the age range where people go, "shit I better do this now" or they never get it.

It's generally something where people don't need it, so don't right a way. Then it becomes a way of infantalising yourself.

Which with him, I guess fits in with his whole thing about growing up and cutting his hair.
 
up_all_night said:
Maybe the tide is turning. Still I won't take it as any comfort to not vote more for Estelle this week than the last.
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Absolutely still vote! It almost felt like tonight's show was geared to keep Ava, the whole Josh can't bare to be away from her for more than a minute storyline.
 
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