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Estelle appreacian thread (i can't spell)

Maybe they just got sick of all the nonsense that comes out of her mouth and finally questioned her on it like they said they would.

Two things have really irked me about her lately, firstly during the 'addiction' round circle she comes out wiht 'oh you know pushing myself' (another job interview answer that makes her look oh so wonderful) and last night when Ava said oh thanks for staying 'yeah I'm real' WTF does that even mean, do you stay for every other housemate Estelle? Are you 'real' to all of them? Oh you don't have to be because no one likes you.

No need to reply people I don't need a lecture on how wonderful you think she is.
 
Could BB give someone a task to shave his head while he is asleep. Might not be so cock sure of himself.
I would love Estelle to win the CQ task to give her a break.
 
Just so you all know Angie supporters are pretty rabid :

AaronMeadows18 [MENTION=32415]Angie[/MENTION]BBAU #bbau last time i cranked out 1000 votes to save Angie. Will try to do it again this week ;-)

So don't forget save Estelle people, keep it to just her and lets get her the most saved again. Imagine if Angie got 2 most saves, yuck!
 
Maybe they just got sick of all the nonsense that comes out of her mouth and finally questioned her on it like they said they would.

Two things have really irked me about her lately, firstly during the 'addiction' round circle she comes out wiht 'oh you know pushing myself' (another job interview answer that makes her look oh so wonderful) and last night when Ava said oh thanks for staying 'yeah I'm real' WTF does that even mean, do you stay for every other housemate Estelle? Are you 'real' to all of them? Oh you don't have to be because no one likes you.

No need to reply people I don't need a lecture on how wonderful you think she is.



The real thing is in relation to how she is referred to as being fake, being a bunch of different people. When she is just being herself. As well as the that she is quite aware the house mates are not being real to her. As she has said many times. With how they all hate and nominate her behind her back, yet are nice to her face.

Do you even pay attention to the show?
 
There's also a video up of Michael upset at Estelle because she didn't appreciate a racist joke.

I'm in two minds about Estelle. I like her for her outsider status and endurance. I don't like her for, as ichi points out, the job interview type answers she gives when she's asked to reveal something of herself.

But really, is she so lame that offences need to be invented to big up her victim status. Michael didn't get upset for Estelle failing to appreciate a racist joke. The whole point of Michael's complaint is that she didn't get that he wasn't just saying a racist joke with the intention of trying to be funny. That would be pretty annoying, to have someone only paying enough attention to what you're saying to then pick up something to use against you and totally ignore the context. He's saying, "here's a racist joke I remember, isn't it shocking" and Estelle accuses him of racism. That's ratshit. No wonder she keeps racking up nomination points.

Anyway, here's the link. Judge for yourselves.
 
Michael should say it to Estelle's face that he has a problem instead of bitching about her behind her back like always.
 
I'm in two minds about Estelle. I like her for her outsider status and endurance. I don't like her for, as ichi points out, the job interview type answers she gives when she's asked to reveal something of herself.

But really, is she so lame that offences need to be invented to big up her victim status. Michael didn't get upset for Estelle failing to appreciate a racist joke. The whole point of Michael's complaint is that she didn't get that he wasn't just saying a racist joke with the intention of trying to be funny. That would be pretty annoying, to have someone only paying enough attention to what you're saying to then pick up something to use against you and totally ignore the context. He's saying, "here's a racist joke I remember, isn't it shocking" and Estelle accuses him of racism. That's ratshit. No wonder she keeps racking up nomination points.

Anyway, here's the link. Judge for yourselves.

I probably chose my words wrong. She didn't appreciate the re-telling of the joke, in the context of his story.


It's hard to really judge with out actually seeing the exchange. One thing we can pick up is that he is really only concerned with how he appears and comes across. He is in it to win it. He just didn't like that someone would say something, express an opinion that might make him possibly not come off great. She doesn't love him, he knows it. Didn't he nominate her for something along the lines that she could make him look bad?

From his re-telling of the story, she merely said, "that's unnecessary Michael, it's really offensive." That it is "Unnecessary" as in, not needed in the telling of the story. Which I think is a valid stance.

He is in damage control from thinking he possibly came off bad. Trying to explain himself. Michael is clearly the most aware of the cameras. Hell even in some of his clips he stops to explain his jokes to the audience.

That is what he is upset about. Blaming Estelle with some whole thing about how she is "thick" when really the only indication that she didn't understand the context is what he says. His quote of her, is entirely reasonable. If she didn't think the joke is worth repeating for being offensive. His whole context, of her not understanding his context.

His holocaust analogy doesn't fit with what we've said. However he knows his captive audience isn't too bright. Which I also wonder if that's part of his problem with Estelle. He's a genius. She's a law student. Law students are generally considered smart. Maybe he just doesn't want anyone to challenge him. Which also fits into his problems with Brad. Independently intelligently minded people.
 
Yeah hawkeye, way to use your brain there.

Michael can't say it to her face because she will crumble into a pile of tears and cry about no one 'understanding' her
 
Yeah hawkeye, way to use your brain there.

Michael can't say it to her face because she will crumble into a pile of tears and cry about no one 'understanding' her

Yeah but Michael never says anything to anyone's face just behind their backs.
 
Differing opinions on Estelle is fine.

However speaking of Michael, he has to be in line with Stacey for most 2 faced person in there. It's all done behind peoples backs. Even Ben is more upfront about his issues with people.
 
Further to this, when he went off on his whole tangent about her not understanding the point. This is not in relation to his exchange with Estelle. Let's break down what happened from his telling. A whole bunch of his ramblings is him trying to put his point of view in context. With the stupid holocaust analogy that doesn't apply.


From how the story is told.


Josh or Bradley: "What's the most offensive thing anyone's every said to you."

Michael: Tells the story involving an extremely racist joke. Repeats the joke.

Estelle: "That's just unnecessary, you don't, it's like really offensive."

Michael, "I know.... No no no, you are not making me out to be this person right now. I am purely telling a story, there was a discourse occuring you are not aware of and now you're not going to paint me to a bigot. That's not the case."

Estelle: "it's just the second time I've heard it."

Michael: "the first time you heard it was the same situation and it was what was the most horrible joke you've ever heard. And by not repeating it the issue doesn't exist. And by putting it in a negative context people realize there's an issue there..."


Then there's no mention on what Estelle's response was to his explaining of himself. To me from his story, there seems nothing thick on her side besides she just didn't like the racist joke being told. Which is perfectly valid. There's no indication at all of her not getting the context, or this big blow up Michael is rambling about.

He doesn't want anyone that'll challenge him. Rightly or wrongly. He just wants a captive audience like he's got with Sam and Josh telling the story. He is then having a tantrum that he may have come off bad.
 
At least she has the gaul to stand up to him and other big personalities in the house.
 
At least she has the gaul to stand up to him and other big personalities in the house.

Hence why they don't like them.

One has to wonder if part of why Michael doesn't like Ava is that it's another source of influence, one with a vagina that he can't compete with.
 
Michael should say it to Estelle's face that he has a problem instead of bitching about her behind her back like always.

According to his retelling of events, he did challenge her on the matter. We don't have the original conversation to judge for ourselves but he does explain that in talking to Josh and Sam, he's repeating his expression of frustration that he's already made to Estelle.


Michael, "I know.... No no no, you are not making me out to be this person right now. I am purely telling a story, there was a discourse occuring you are not aware of and now you're not going to paint me to a bigot. That's not the case."

This is the crux of the matter. Estelle has done this before. Rather than engaging in conversation she's struck an ultra PC pose. Instead of freely interacting, she's fished for a moment to stand some moral high ground. That would be a really frustrating thing to have to deal with.

Of course Michael wants to remonstrate about it. Of course he doesn't want people to miss the context of what he's said and only hear him sounding racist. He's wrong to call Estelle thick but in a way that's kinder than to attribute to her the self aggrandising bit of high horse play she chose to indulge in.

Michael's fuming and rightly so. I can only guess his annoyance is largely because Estelle failed to assure him that she did understand where he was coming from after all. That is the indication of her not getting the context. Instead, it sounds like she kept her nose in the air about not wanting to hear 'that sort of talk'.

This is not about Estelle not appreciating a racist joke. There wasn't a racist joke. It sounds like she decided to make it into being about a racist joke. It is extremely offensive to tell someone they're being racist when they're not.

Yes, I'm looking at you hawkeye99.
 
According to his retelling of events, he did challenge her on the matter. We don't have the original conversation to judge for ourselves but he does explain that in talking to Josh and Sam, he's repeating his expression of frustration that he's already made to Estelle.


This is the crux of the matter. Estelle has done this before. Rather than engaging in conversation she's struck an ultra PC pose. Instead of freely interacting, she's fished for a moment to stand some moral high ground. That would be a really frustrating thing to have to deal with.

Of course Michael wants to remonstrate about it. Of course he doesn't want people to miss the context of what he's said and only hear him sounding racist. He's wrong to call Estelle thick but in a way that's kinder than to attribute to her the self aggrandising bit of high horse play she chose to indulge in.

Michael's fuming and rightly so. I can only guess his annoyance is largely because Estelle failed to assure him that she did understand where he was coming from after all. That is the indication of her not getting the context. Instead, it sounds like she kept her nose in the air about not wanting to hear 'that sort of talk'.

This is not about Estelle not appreciating a racist joke. There wasn't a racist joke. It sounds like she decided to make it into being about a racist joke. It is extremely offensive to tell someone they're being racist when they're not.

Yes, I'm looking at you hawkeye99.

We have no indication whether she engaged in a conversation or not. Whether she understood or not. You're just assuming she didn't.

We are told she said it was "unnecessary and offensive" as part of Michael ranting at how stupid she is.

According to the events, she said that, then Michael stopped and explained why he said it. We have no indication or suggestion as to what she said after he stopped and explained himself in response to her comment.

She might have said, "yes, Ok, I still don't think it's necessary to tell such an offensive joke."
or
"No there's never an excuse."
or
"I understand, sorry."

We don't know and i'm sorry, but there isn't any indication in the clip. He is just complaining about her saying the joke was unnecessary may have in that moment have made him look bad. Which clearly goes to how he sees that it could have made him look bad. Which further justifies Estelle saying it's unnecessary. She didn't think it was, he clearly sees others could also think that. It is all about him throwing a tantrum about maybe looking bad and then calling her an idiot for it.

Not everyone likes and can appreciate racist jokes for non racist reasons. There is nothing wrong with that at all. From her perspective, she's heard him say the same racist joke twice now. I guarantee, if we ever see the clip. There will be a joking tone, taking enjoyment out of telling the joke. That doesn't mean he's a bigot. People can enjoy racist jokes on different levels. Some because they are racist. Others because the punchline is not the racism but how offensive the racism is or can be perceived. I am sure Michael is in the later camp. Which I would generally classify myself in.

His rant is about no wrong doing or stupidity of her. It is about Michael thinks he is awesome and super smart. That no one should challenge him, no one should question him. They should all sit there and agree, he's a genius after all. He is upset she wasn't a passive listener, then even more upset by making a comment he could come off badly.
 
We have no indication whether she engaged in a conversation or not. Whether she understood or not. You're just assuming she didn't.

The indication is in Michael's explanation. I can only go by that. We're discussing Michael's frustration with Estelle. It doesn't sound resolved to me. You can speculate about what might have happened but what we don't have is any indication at this stage that she understood.

We are told she said it was "unnecessary and offensive" as part of Michael ranting at how stupid she is.

And he makes a pretty good case.

He is just complaining about her saying the joke was unnecessary may have in that moment have made him look bad. Which clearly goes to how he sees that it could have made him look bad.

Being called a racist doesn't just make you look bad in the moment. There's nothing in what he says that leads to a conclusion that he's just firing off about a fragment of conversation since resolved. All indication is of the opposite. It sounds like Estelle has pissed him off by stubbornly maintaining her bullshit.

Not everyone likes and can appreciate racist jokes for non racist reasons.

But he wasn't just telling a racist joke. It came up in a discussion about racism. It sounds like she's grasped an opportunity to sound like she's on higher ground on the issue. As Michael says he told her:

"You are not making me out to be this person right now. I'm purely telling a story. There was a discourse occurring that you weren't aware of and now you're not going to paint me to be a bigot."


I guarantee, if we ever see the clip.

You're in no position to guarantee anything. Unless we see the clip we'll never know for sure. I'm just trying to understand why Estelle is disliked in the house and I'm getting an indication in the clip we have.

He is upset she wasn't a passive listener, then even more upset by making a comment he could come off badly.

It sounds more like he's upset she was too passive a listener. She listened only so far as she could big note herself on the subject of racism. He doesn't like that his words have been used against him by Estelle's cheap one-upmanship. It's about racism. That's upsetting.
 
Perhaps she thought once was enough to make his point, twice was superfluous.

He didn't explain it last time. That was the point of the video. He was saying he wasn't going to bite his tongue this time.

It's just part of the whole, listen to me. I am right. If you have anything to say or question me. Don't because I am smart, you are dumb.

You are automatically dumb and an idiot if you question him or offer a different opinion.
 
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