blowhard89
Well-Known Member
As soon as I saw that I realized there was no way she was winning.
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Episode Australian Survivor (2016) - Episode 21 Discussion
- Thread starter timmy
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starry
Well-Known Member
Did Brooke go on about 'the good guys' like Sam, Lee, Kate, Sue, even JL from what I remember? I think a mistake of Brooke was going along with Sam in getting rid of Nick who was aligned with her group as she was one of the few willing to trust him , Sam was the one that pushed for his elimination though not Brooke.
Always thought it would be the alliance turning on themselves that would see things change and was surprised but pleased to see Flick do it - though I really think JL had done the ground work and put the doubt in her mind. Brooke was clearly the biggest threat in the entire game and had controlled it for a long time, plus was so strong in competitions too. It was the best move all series and turned Flick from somebody I really really really hated into someone I wouldn't mind seeing win now, not that I think she will.
The subplot here of course though is how Aganoa now are in a position of at least parity, if not control (especially if Lee uses his advantage - think next time is his final chance) and after how they started in the game it would be great to see them strong towards the end. They should be able to use Flick now to get rid of Sam and Matt and then it's game on.
The subplot here of course though is how Aganoa now are in a position of at least parity, if not control (especially if Lee uses his advantage - think next time is his final chance) and after how they started in the game it would be great to see them strong towards the end. They should be able to use Flick now to get rid of Sam and Matt and then it's game on.
I don't think Brooke went along with it. I recall Sam changing his vote from what she expected him to do.
Too long ago to remember.
Brooke didn't go on about the good guys because she isn't one. She did put down anyone who was a strategist or who was trying to play the game or get things to shift. It was almost like she was insulted by them even trying to play. At least that's my recollection. That is how she and Flick kept people in line- the threat that if they tried anything, they would go next. I think Lee said as much to Kyrstie.
Winterbourne
Unfallen Icarus
Okay, so the Pagonging of the interesting people has ended. Man, that was a rough patch, from Phoebe through to JL, when anyone not in Saanapu or who saw what was coming tonight was just voted out. It is a Shame that the best played games - like those of Boston Rob and Kim - make for the boringest seasons.
But now, we have a game. Silly bugger Brooke for starting after Lee a day too early. There's no point planning the vote before immunity, especially when you have the numbers. It gives too long for something to go wrong - like the fact that once the cork was pulled on the idea of flipping, Flick might realise she didn't want to go to the end with someone she can't beat. Flick was Brooke's goat, but now she has a big move to her name. Who càn she beat, though? She's lost Brooke's vote, can't beat Lee, apparently can't beat El, and it's dicey with any of the others. She mày get through as a goat, but no one is trusting her again.
I wonder if El considers going to the end with Lee.
It is a shame most of the interesting people suffered the typical Australian reality fate, as everyone conspires so that someone like Lee can win, but now the pagonging is over, we could have a game.
Team Kristie. Go the psychos.
But now, we have a game. Silly bugger Brooke for starting after Lee a day too early. There's no point planning the vote before immunity, especially when you have the numbers. It gives too long for something to go wrong - like the fact that once the cork was pulled on the idea of flipping, Flick might realise she didn't want to go to the end with someone she can't beat. Flick was Brooke's goat, but now she has a big move to her name. Who càn she beat, though? She's lost Brooke's vote, can't beat Lee, apparently can't beat El, and it's dicey with any of the others. She mày get through as a goat, but no one is trusting her again.
I wonder if El considers going to the end with Lee.
It is a shame most of the interesting people suffered the typical Australian reality fate, as everyone conspires so that someone like Lee can win, but now the pagonging is over, we could have a game.
Team Kristie. Go the psychos.
Melore
Tiny Member
From fading memory, Sam was all gungho to get out Nick (presumably as Lee caught him finding the idol after he got the auction clue, and then pretended he was always going to tell the group, which offended Lee and Sam's high moral radars) without telling Brookie as she'd be against it, and had the numbers, and then Kylie stupidly went off and blabbed the plan to Brooke and Flick before tribal, they gasped, so then Sam had to smoothe things over and they split the vote that night with whoever they'd been dismissively flicking from not-their-tribe*, got out Nick's idol and then he was booted the at the following tribal.
* think it was Kate
blowhard89
Well-Known Member
Well we have different opinions on this. I dont think she could have gone for Lee earlier because she would have lost El in the process and also potentially the numbers advantage. She waited for the right time but...as someone else pointed out...she probably should have not brought it up until after the immunity challenge but I believe her complete trust in Flick and her cockiness made her a bit sloppy and unobservant.
Hey Rose,I know a lot of people feel the way you do and that they used "mean girl" tactics but......IMHO what else was she/they supposed to do? Vote out the nonthreats and keep people who may be plotting against her around? If you are in her position you want as many sheep around to lead to the slaughter as possible. I mentioned it before but Boston Rob in US Survivor did this and was labelled a master strategist...Derek who won BBUS the same....but when its a woman they are "mean"? Damn that movie. Personally I felt that she did what she had to do without taking it to excess. There were no scenes of the girls cursing out and laughing at their weaker opposition, in fact it appears that El in particular was really loved by everyone. I have no access to the Jury Villa videos, that may paint a different picture.
And most importantly...its rare that women get control of a game like this, they usually act as vessels to set it up for the men to win....I can only off the top of my head recall a group of women working together successfully in the "Friendship" in BBUS6, Kim in Survivor One World, and the women in Survivor Vanuatu who at the end outnumbered the lone male 7-1 and he still won. And Brooke being a woman of..well somewhat color I was happy to see her in charge until they inevitably turned on each other and potentially allowed one of the men to win...and I just do NOT want that to happen. This group of men do not deserve it. The women have been the stars of this season...let one of them take the money.
She didn't have anyone plotting against her until it was their time to go. We saw absolutely zero organized effort against her. As Rob said on the podcast, the Australian move is to go along with the majority until it's your turn to go and then start calling people out. We didn't see anyone saying lets have a final three deal, or any kind of alliance making other than Kate and Conner, which turned out to mean nothing.
I'm not an expert in Boston Rob but I know he played 4 times, married the girl he got to the end to a win and then won in a season designed for him to win. The season he won is at the bottom of the list of seasons that people like. I think his understanding of strategy is respected because he is good at reading the game. His winning season was after years of Survivor where people weren't just sheep.
I also think the show has obviously misrepresented how close people are in the show. These votes were all based on original tribe loyalty despite what the show showed us with Lee and Sam and Brooke and El.
As for the three women, why didn't they stick together and vote out Matt? They turned on each other at the first hurdle.
Brooke can complain about Flick, but she did the exact same thing to El.
Edit to add: I'm frustrated with the show because it was fantastic and then turned into the worst season largely due to production design decisions. I'm also frustrated with casting a large number of people who know nothing about the show. I'm also frustrated with the edit making everyone unlikable, at least to me as an American.
But I'm enjoying watching it with you guys. The first few weeks were great tv.
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blowhard89
Well-Known Member
Agreed there was no organized plotting so I presume in light of that anyone that they believed might start trying it was the next victim.
Yes it appeared they designed that season specifically for Boston Rob to win considering whom he got to drag to the end with him.
And the three women SHOULD have stuck together and voted out Matt. But in the end Flick voting out Brooke makes for a more interesting finale so the viewers are the winners.
I also now have unblocked access to the Jury Villa videos . So for those non Aussies who do not have it should I post the link here or should it be done by private message. Dont want to break any rules.
Meglos
HAVE A NECTARINE, GONK
Totally agree regarding the Brooke/Flick/El situation. Brooke doesn't seem to be able to empathise, it's all about how it made her feel.
I'm sorry that you are not enjoying the season anymore. Some of the gameplay frustrates me, but I'm loving the season regardless. I've seen all but one of the US version, and for me the Aussie version beats over half of those.
starry
Well-Known Member
Those who go on about being 'the good guys', as Lee even did again in the recent episode, really annoy me. They pretend it's some holiday camp where you can't make moves. The good guys v bad guys storyline is bullshit and I won't accept it however much it is pushed. The fact that Sam is supposedly a good guy undermines it enough anyway. Sometimes you just have to question the storyline as it's given.
And I know some are annoyed that the edit had Brooke as being in control for so long, but that's as much down to the incompetence of the others, who were only goaded into action eventually by Flick waking them up. Brooke may be annoyed not just at being eliminated but by being eliminated in a bad move. And these Kristie confessionals about how she is such a great gameplayer sound as arrogant as Brooke, but her part in the game really doesn't back it up. I like supporting underdogs but I prefer more active ones, Phoebe probably being the best example this season. Des and Kat stirred things at least.
The best thing about Brooke going is Sam or Matt will find it harder to get to the end, the worst part is that the others who aren't that deserving anyway now have a better chance (such as El who seemed to be coasting behind Brooke ). Brooke did make the first move and so outdid El in that sense. El just benefited from someone else letting her know, just like Kristie did when Kate told her about Phoebe's plan. So being the beneficiaries of someone else's game. They might say they planted the seeds for that, but that's a much bigger stretch than someone saying they actually acted and made move for themselves rather than depending on someone else's move.
I agree not all US Survivors have been good, sometimes they haven't got the cast right too. But at its best it's been very good. The Australian one in coming back at this point was able to latch onto the slick modern Survivor production style. The main change was a bigger cast and more episodes. But maybe a smaller cast could have cut out some of the makeweights who filled out the season.
With things thought spoilers on the outcome I think it's best using spoiler tags, not everyone will know the stuff outside the forum.
And I know some are annoyed that the edit had Brooke as being in control for so long, but that's as much down to the incompetence of the others, who were only goaded into action eventually by Flick waking them up. Brooke may be annoyed not just at being eliminated but by being eliminated in a bad move. And these Kristie confessionals about how she is such a great gameplayer sound as arrogant as Brooke, but her part in the game really doesn't back it up. I like supporting underdogs but I prefer more active ones, Phoebe probably being the best example this season. Des and Kat stirred things at least.
The best thing about Brooke going is Sam or Matt will find it harder to get to the end, the worst part is that the others who aren't that deserving anyway now have a better chance (such as El who seemed to be coasting behind Brooke ). Brooke did make the first move and so outdid El in that sense. El just benefited from someone else letting her know, just like Kristie did when Kate told her about Phoebe's plan. So being the beneficiaries of someone else's game. They might say they planted the seeds for that, but that's a much bigger stretch than someone saying they actually acted and made move for themselves rather than depending on someone else's move.
I agree not all US Survivors have been good, sometimes they haven't got the cast right too. But at its best it's been very good. The Australian one in coming back at this point was able to latch onto the slick modern Survivor production style. The main change was a bigger cast and more episodes. But maybe a smaller cast could have cut out some of the makeweights who filled out the season.
With things thought spoilers on the outcome I think it's best using spoiler tags, not everyone will know the stuff outside the forum.
Worth remembering that this is the first Australian Survivor to air in a decade or so and the broadcast of the US version may have a loyal audience, but it's a small audience. I think they got the mix quite right really - a few people who were superfans but not an entire cast of them. Means it slightly harks back to the early days of reality TV when nobody really had a pre-conceived plan of how to play the game.
Frustrating though is the word - agree the tribe swaps is what really killed the middle part of the season, plus the length of the season and number of contestant - it feels absolutely ridiculous when he's saying "The 18th person to be voted out is..."
Like all good stories reality TV needs a beginning, a middle and an end - and there has been far too much middle in this. The end is set up nicely though - I'm guessing we've only 4-5 episodes left at most (I'm going to assume 4 more regular episodes and the finale).
I like so much about what show has done and I know I sound too negative. I'm still excited that Australian tv turned out a show that competes with any Survivor season. The photography is gorgeous and production values are high.
I know some people had doubts before it started and the production team did a great job. Survivor fans all over the world are watching and commenting on it. I doubt that happens for too many shows.
I like seeing the cultural differences in action too.
Phoebe is one of the best players I've seen and I think Craig could have been good as well. Pretty good to discover an elite level player. It would have been nice to see both premerge tribes under stress. I am not sure which players would have risen to the top there, though Brooke did very well, she lost the first time she tried to make an aggressive move. I would like to see Phoebe play again, maybe Brooke and Flick as well.
I will be disappointed if there isn't a second season. I wish they had a way for non Australians to watch the show. I would have paid for the episodes to support the show.
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Melore
Tiny Member
I have to say I've enjoyed it far more than many of the last few seasons of the mothership, including the current one, so far. I like that we have a ramshackle crew, mostly less cutthroat and definitely far less belligerent than a fair portion of the last few castings in the US; and it doesn't bother me at all that we don't have the sort of superhero that people seem to like - as I never liked Boston Rob, Ozzie, Tony, and especially not Parvarti. (Brooke was probably the closest to Parvarti, and I loathed her from day one!)
It's the best version of Survivor we've done so far, and I think it will be renewed. I'm glad they cast an extra four (or 6, depending which season of US Survivor you compare it to) people, and I'm glad it's on for 55 days as opposed to 39, and I'm thrilled it's on more than once a week. For me it's a dream come true.
Yes, there was a bit too much producer manipulation, but I have enjoyed seeing Kristie rise victorious out of those ashes.
Someone put it beautifully in one of the earlier threads, that people watch for different reasons and enjoy different kinds of players. I will always love the underdogs (and that is definitely an Australian trait, to root for the underdog, to sympathise with the underdog and the outcast) and I will always be wanting the introvert to win, and hoping for the older person to stay longer, or the ostracised tribe member to come good somehow, and for the clunky alliance leading the thing to fall apart.
In so many of the last US series it has been to me a horror show of vile, ugly-natured, coarse, or in Michelle's case just dull people triumphing over my kinds of players. This has been so much more of a mixed bag, and just so breathtakingly beautiful to watch. Pags is a really good host with his own wit and humour and spin on things. I think it's a great first effort, and am very happy with it, and I think it stacks up well against many prior seasons I've seen and is certainly more enjoyable to watch, for me, than many of them.
It's the best version of Survivor we've done so far, and I think it will be renewed. I'm glad they cast an extra four (or 6, depending which season of US Survivor you compare it to) people, and I'm glad it's on for 55 days as opposed to 39, and I'm thrilled it's on more than once a week. For me it's a dream come true.
Yes, there was a bit too much producer manipulation, but I have enjoyed seeing Kristie rise victorious out of those ashes.
Someone put it beautifully in one of the earlier threads, that people watch for different reasons and enjoy different kinds of players. I will always love the underdogs (and that is definitely an Australian trait, to root for the underdog, to sympathise with the underdog and the outcast) and I will always be wanting the introvert to win, and hoping for the older person to stay longer, or the ostracised tribe member to come good somehow, and for the clunky alliance leading the thing to fall apart.
In so many of the last US series it has been to me a horror show of vile, ugly-natured, coarse, or in Michelle's case just dull people triumphing over my kinds of players. This has been so much more of a mixed bag, and just so breathtakingly beautiful to watch. Pags is a really good host with his own wit and humour and spin on things. I think it's a great first effort, and am very happy with it, and I think it stacks up well against many prior seasons I've seen and is certainly more enjoyable to watch, for me, than many of them.
Winterbourne
Unfallen Icarus
Who do I want to win now?
Sam just did to Lee the exact thing he hated Nick for - even though Niçk never even did it, Sam could just imagine him doing it. The thief thinks everyone steals. Screw Sam.
Fliçk has somehow made herself interesting to me, after a season of not being so, but will probably be the next to go. She couldn't have beaten Brooke, but now I don't see her path to the end. She could beat Matt, maybe Kristie, but will they take her? Everyone else has her beat. Flippers never win.
Lee. Ungh. Just give the màn his money. Like Australian Celebrity Survivor ànd most other franchises, this archetype typically wins in Australia. So, screw him.
Matt. Bloody do something, mate.
El. Who.
Kristie. Clearly the castaway most likely to kill à stranger in their sleep because her cat told her to, but I don't know who else to support, after having hated Flick all season, and given that she'll be gone next week.
Sam just did to Lee the exact thing he hated Nick for - even though Niçk never even did it, Sam could just imagine him doing it. The thief thinks everyone steals. Screw Sam.
Fliçk has somehow made herself interesting to me, after a season of not being so, but will probably be the next to go. She couldn't have beaten Brooke, but now I don't see her path to the end. She could beat Matt, maybe Kristie, but will they take her? Everyone else has her beat. Flippers never win.
Lee. Ungh. Just give the màn his money. Like Australian Celebrity Survivor ànd most other franchises, this archetype typically wins in Australia. So, screw him.
Matt. Bloody do something, mate.
El. Who.
Kristie. Clearly the castaway most likely to kill à stranger in their sleep because her cat told her to, but I don't know who else to support, after having hated Flick all season, and given that she'll be gone next week.
Post of the week.
blowhard89
Well-Known Member
I agree with every single word of this. A few tweaks here and there and its better than the original. For a first season it was sensational. I loved the 24 players and extra viewing time enabled us to see a bit more camp life than you usually see in US Survivor.. Im still amazed that Brooke and Kylie stayed on that pole for over 6 frigging hours. When you think about it its incredible.
Good job Australia. Great people. Great show.
Pedantic I know but it's really Australia's third season. But it's the first for Channel Ten and definitely the first produced true to the original. And kudos to them, except for some obvious production failures.
It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings so let's see how the remaining five episodes play out!
If it comes down to Leeel, I will be disappointed, it must be said.
starry
Well-Known Member
I don't mind the manipulation of Brooke being her main gameplay. My problem is that I never felt she had much charisma, though that's the same for all of those left. Brooke just seemed to be smiling nearly all the time whatever she was feeling. And Flick, for someone who was making the big move at tribal, looked kind of embarrassed and ungainly when it all played out. El looked better, though it wasn't her move and she's been invisible so far this season.
And with the point on it getting back to original reality TV realness, Survivor is an elimination game where people take each other out. Of course you can get people taking a personal dislike or like to people who are dissimilar or similar but it still comes down to making the moves that work for you in the game. There have been quite a few more pure survivalist shows in recent times but they can get very samey, it's the same old fire/food/water/shelter drama every time, often with Bear Grylls who I don't even rate as a presenter. I think it needs competitions and strategy to spice that format up, which Survivor does.
And with the point on it getting back to original reality TV realness, Survivor is an elimination game where people take each other out. Of course you can get people taking a personal dislike or like to people who are dissimilar or similar but it still comes down to making the moves that work for you in the game. There have been quite a few more pure survivalist shows in recent times but they can get very samey, it's the same old fire/food/water/shelter drama every time, often with Bear Grylls who I don't even rate as a presenter. I think it needs competitions and strategy to spice that format up, which Survivor does.
FatPants
Dogs are the best people
Seconded. Post of the week or even season. It's spot on.