I have a fork, and am willing to use it.
LOL
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The Plebiscite for Marriage Equality
- Thread starter delcan
- Start date
LOL
Ha! I was teary just writing that post. I'll always hold dear the support I've received throughout all of this from family, friends, and strangers. I'm especially grateful for people like you as religion has always been such a big part of my reality and family that at times it's been very difficult to reconcile it when it comes in conflict with myself. So it's uplifting when I come across people of faith as caring and considerate as you, who prove you don't have to choose 'sides'. I don't think I've mentioned it but you often remind of my abuela, whose faith was such and integral part of her, and who was the kindest most loving person I've ever known.
Beachsands
Formerly known as desertsands
Like this a lot. We can win this. Time the pollies to step up. As much as I admired Julia it made me angry that when she had a chance to change she didn’t do it.
I blame phone-posting, combined with 50c beers
Aww @Consuela thank you. What a lovely thing to say. I do take sides though - personally. With my congregation I try not to tell them what to vote on any issue - but rather how to vote. How to interpret the Scriptures through the lenses of reason and experience as well as tradition - and apply that to what we know of Jesus and his attitude toward love and justice and his opinion of keeping to the law for only the law's sake - and then make a decision accordingly. I hope I do that well most of the time but my husband tells me I was pretty obviously telling them 'what' to vote this time round
Mooseface
Little known member
Effing Hell. Well... I have been a bit standoffish about it from here I have to admit. It seemed like a bit like a big hullaballo. However it seems like I could not possibly have held that attitude if I had been in Melbourne. I’m a bit shocked that it seems to have been so awful (especially in contrast as the legislation went through almost unnoticed here) and FWIW I’m sorry it seemed to have been (was) so awful.Yes, all of that and a lot more. LGBTI people abused and spat on, murals vandalised, graffiti on a Sydney train:
The whole process was littered with hateful abuse (and I admit not all from the No side, but mostly). And the LGBTI community knew all along this would happen and that is why we fought so hard against the plebiscite. No campaigners made out that we didn't want it because we thought we would lose, but 10 years of polling told us we were well in the majority and a poll or plebiscite was not only unnecessary but would also be damaging and hurtful.
This whole year has been very emotionally draining to me personally, as I'm sure it has been to my LGBTI comrades.
NEVER AGAIN.
From Sally Rugg on Twitter, well worth a read (I have merged her series of tweets to make it easier to read):
Sally Rugg
️@sallyrugg 9h9 hours ago
I know some people were really confronted and upset about the 61.8% Yes result, and could only think of the 38.2% who voted no. Two things:
First of all - the No campaign pumped MILLIONS of dollars into disgraceful, dishonest advertising campaigns designed to scare people, particularly parents.
This is what explains the lower Yes votes in part of Western Sydney, PS. The No campaign specifically targeted religious communities there.
When someone is scared, they are disinclined to make change. Many, many people who voted no wouldn't have voted against SSM, but would have voted to stick to the status quo.
Even if someone can't see any evidence that their freedoms will be attacked and their children preyed on (bc it's not true), if someone is scared, they are not going to take a risk.
38.2% aren't against LGBTIQ people, they were just targeted and lied to. Hard, hard No voters far smaller - usually polls around 12%
The No campaign were willing to tell lies, stoke fear and vilify LGBTIQ people - including myself personally. The Yes campaign refused to be anything but positive, and I'm proud of that.
Secondly - there were so many barriers for participation in the survey, particularly for young people (~80% who support SSM)
Getting on the roll, updating your address, remembering to post, knowing how to post. That sounds silly but we had so many questions about stamps and post offices etc.
Because the survey was voluntary, the final Yes result was directly affected by turnout percentage. And demographics with higher propensity to vote were more likely to be no voters.
All things considered: the nature of the public vote, the No campaign's dirty tactics (which we expected and prepared for), and the barriers to participation, we are absolutely, completely thrilled with 61.8%
I look at that number and get butterflies in my stomach. That number represents the support of so many people, the hard work of our volunteers, the sacrifice of so many activists.
So I know in a vacuum it doesn't look huge, but for anyone who feels a little sad about that number let me assure you that it is something to be so proud of.
61.8% of folks didn't flinch at the No campaign's attempts to scare them. They went out of their way to update their address and then walk to the post box and post the thing.
That doesn't sound like much, but I sometimes I'll try to encourage super engaged getup members to click a link in an email and they're not interested unless it matters to them (which is completely fair haha)
What I'm trying to say is - take the win. Hold onto that gorgeous number, or forget the number and look around at all the signs of love and support. If you look at it from where I'm sitting, it's truly spectacular and I am so proud of all 7 million of us Yes voters forever.
PS - this does not mean I like the postal survey. It never, ever should have happened and I will never forgive the people who sacrificed real queer lives for their political gain. But I can still take the win.
Sally Rugg ️@sallyrugg 9h9 hours ago
I know some people were really confronted and upset about the 61.8% Yes result, and could only think of the 38.2% who voted no. Two things:
First of all - the No campaign pumped MILLIONS of dollars into disgraceful, dishonest advertising campaigns designed to scare people, particularly parents.
This is what explains the lower Yes votes in part of Western Sydney, PS. The No campaign specifically targeted religious communities there.
When someone is scared, they are disinclined to make change. Many, many people who voted no wouldn't have voted against SSM, but would have voted to stick to the status quo.
Even if someone can't see any evidence that their freedoms will be attacked and their children preyed on (bc it's not true), if someone is scared, they are not going to take a risk.
38.2% aren't against LGBTIQ people, they were just targeted and lied to. Hard, hard No voters far smaller - usually polls around 12%
The No campaign were willing to tell lies, stoke fear and vilify LGBTIQ people - including myself personally. The Yes campaign refused to be anything but positive, and I'm proud of that.
Secondly - there were so many barriers for participation in the survey, particularly for young people (~80% who support SSM)
Getting on the roll, updating your address, remembering to post, knowing how to post. That sounds silly but we had so many questions about stamps and post offices etc.
Because the survey was voluntary, the final Yes result was directly affected by turnout percentage. And demographics with higher propensity to vote were more likely to be no voters.
All things considered: the nature of the public vote, the No campaign's dirty tactics (which we expected and prepared for), and the barriers to participation, we are absolutely, completely thrilled with 61.8%
I look at that number and get butterflies in my stomach. That number represents the support of so many people, the hard work of our volunteers, the sacrifice of so many activists.
So I know in a vacuum it doesn't look huge, but for anyone who feels a little sad about that number let me assure you that it is something to be so proud of.
61.8% of folks didn't flinch at the No campaign's attempts to scare them. They went out of their way to update their address and then walk to the post box and post the thing.
That doesn't sound like much, but I sometimes I'll try to encourage super engaged getup members to click a link in an email and they're not interested unless it matters to them (which is completely fair haha)
What I'm trying to say is - take the win. Hold onto that gorgeous number, or forget the number and look around at all the signs of love and support. If you look at it from where I'm sitting, it's truly spectacular and I am so proud of all 7 million of us Yes voters forever.
PS - this does not mean I like the postal survey. It never, ever should have happened and I will never forgive the people who sacrificed real queer lives for their political gain. But I can still take the win.
Kingston
Canadian Royalty
I think had things like Trump or Brexit not happened the vote might have swayed more towards the NO side... We have more people in the "west" becoming politically active than we have in the past as fear of the "alt-right" grows...
kxk
SAPIOSEXUAL
Bonus side effect - we now have a map of where I will never live, and nice places to visit or retire.
Tassie - has done a total turn around, it was friggin illegal to be gay until 1997 ....remember they had to go to the UN
I lived there in the early 90s, and it was freaky how absent of gay people it was, when WA where i had been was the opposite, more gay than anywhere in Oz. Such fun we had at the Gay Olympics back then, should have been called the off ya face games.
Tassie was scary back then it was so backward, no sexual harassment laws. lots of missing human rights
If Western Sydney hadn't dragged the stats down, ,most places, only have tiny pockets of old bigots
Tassie - has done a total turn around, it was friggin illegal to be gay until 1997 ....remember they had to go to the UN
I lived there in the early 90s, and it was freaky how absent of gay people it was, when WA where i had been was the opposite, more gay than anywhere in Oz. Such fun we had at the Gay Olympics back then, should have been called the off ya face games.
Tassie was scary back then it was so backward, no sexual harassment laws. lots of missing human rights
If Western Sydney hadn't dragged the stats down, ,most places, only have tiny pockets of old bigots
kxk
SAPIOSEXUAL
The Upper House was heading steadily towards approving the private member’s bill of Liberal Dean Smith, which will next week be considered by the House of Representatives.
12.23 DONE......Senate is voting now, and it will pass without amendments....all proposed amendments REJECTED
DICKHEADS TRIED TO TAKE A DUMB DETOUR
Right-wingers were attempting last-minute amendments this morning in a bid to make that transition more complicated.
“I notice in the morning every day when we stand up to say the Lord’s Prayer in this place that the majority of those on the opposite side don’t even say the Lord’s Prayer,” said One Nation’s Pauline Hanson.
12.23 DONE......Senate is voting now, and it will pass without amendments....all proposed amendments REJECTED
DICKHEADS TRIED TO TAKE A DUMB DETOUR
Right-wingers were attempting last-minute amendments this morning in a bid to make that transition more complicated.
“I notice in the morning every day when we stand up to say the Lord’s Prayer in this place that the majority of those on the opposite side don’t even say the Lord’s Prayer,” said One Nation’s Pauline Hanson.
Meglos
HAVE A NECTARINE, GONK
Does anyone take Pauline Hanson seriously?
She should just tell the truth, rather than the "won't somebody please think of the children" routine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4871088/Pauline-Hanson-vote-no-gay-marriage-plebiscite.html
She should just tell the truth, rather than the "won't somebody please think of the children" routine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4871088/Pauline-Hanson-vote-no-gay-marriage-plebiscite.html
Watching Senate live now, on ABC News and https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Parliament
They should be voting any minute.
They should be voting any minute.
kxk
SAPIOSEXUAL
DONE....43 TO 12 ......NO AMENDMENTS
hanson ....hope you feel isolated, you are not fit to be a representative of our country, we are one of few civilized countries that does not require a minimum standard of intelligence, such as a high school certificate or pas an IQ test.
Thus, we WASTE time, and money .....because we have dimwits in parliament who cannot even get their citizenship in order.
Sick to death of fuckwits in government
hanson ....hope you feel isolated, you are not fit to be a representative of our country, we are one of few civilized countries that does not require a minimum standard of intelligence, such as a high school certificate or pas an IQ test.
Thus, we WASTE time, and money .....because we have dimwits in parliament who cannot even get their citizenship in order.
Sick to death of fuckwits in government
kxk
SAPIOSEXUAL
And just to complete the stats.....
There were 72 senators able to vote today but only 55 did so.
At least one senator, Gavin Marshall, is overseas so 16 other senators were either granted leave or abstained from the vote.
Senators who have confirmed they abstained include Employment Minister Michaelia Cash, Assistant Minister for Social Services Zed Seselja, Liberal senator James McGrath, National’s Bridget McKenzie, and One Nation’s Pauline Hanson.
Other senators who were missing include Labor’s Sam Dastyari, Don Farrell, Alex Gallacher, Katy Gallagher, Deb O’Neill, Glenn Sterle and Jacinta Collins (who was given a pair and so did not have to vote) as well as One Nation’s Peter Georgiou and Liberal’s David Fawcett.
Liberal’s Arthur Sinodinos and Labor’s Pat Dodson may have been on leave.
There were 72 senators able to vote today but only 55 did so.
At least one senator, Gavin Marshall, is overseas so 16 other senators were either granted leave or abstained from the vote.
Senators who have confirmed they abstained include Employment Minister Michaelia Cash, Assistant Minister for Social Services Zed Seselja, Liberal senator James McGrath, National’s Bridget McKenzie, and One Nation’s Pauline Hanson.
Other senators who were missing include Labor’s Sam Dastyari, Don Farrell, Alex Gallacher, Katy Gallagher, Deb O’Neill, Glenn Sterle and Jacinta Collins (who was given a pair and so did not have to vote) as well as One Nation’s Peter Georgiou and Liberal’s David Fawcett.
Liberal’s Arthur Sinodinos and Labor’s Pat Dodson may have been on leave.
I saw him on TV just a moment ago. He said that he looks forward to attending the wedding of his sister Christine early in the New Year.