Vesna is one of my absolute favourite housemates ever. I would have loved to have seen her instead of a couple of channel 9 returnees. I’m not sure if she’d have been able to shine in this format as we don’t get to see much interaction outside of gameplay.
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Episode BBAU 2022 - Episode 26 Discussion (4 July, 7:30pm)
- Thread starter Lightning McQueen
- Start date
Vesna is one of my absolute favourite housemates ever. I would have loved to have seen her instead of a couple of channel 9 returnees. I’m not sure if she’d have been able to shine in this format as we don’t get to see much interaction outside of gameplay.
Nah I don’t personally believe that in discussing Estelle’s emotional reactions in and post show is just defending the ‘bad’ behaviour of others.
For me it’s the hypocrisy. And I don’t believe it is bad play. It’s within the rules and an acceptable strategy in this format. I also don’t think anyone plays a purely honest game.
I just listened to Ben Norris’ podcast with Gabbie. She makes the point that no one is a pure head (strategic) player or a pure heart (emotional) player. They may lean more to one or the other but it doesn’t make one good and one bad. Or even one better than the other.
I’ve said multiple times, my perception of why Estelle’s behaviour crosses the line is not being upset. I get it, that’s a normal human response to being deceived even inside a game. It hurts and it sucks and it’s natural to feel a bit betrayed. It’s the moral outrage and trying to make out like those who lie inside the game are immoral or bad people. They aren’t. They’re just using a particular strategy that she HAS used but doesn’t really want to confess to, more than she has.
I think it’s incomparable to 2012. That was a different show, different format and the scheming around strategy and alliances were not allowed to be talked about so her experiences then and now do not equate … at all!
It is absolutely ok for her to be upset because someone (in my words) outplayed her. But don’t try and continue the narrative that they are immoral and bad people months after the fact.
!! At the end of the day there are a million things I admire about Estelle and her gameplay. This was one area I don’t think was fair on her behalf.
Sorry but the whole idea of a ‘heart’ player is bullshit to me. You’re operating in the same system of nomination and eviction as everyone else in the game. Your decisions contribute to or outright end someone else’s experience. There is no better, worse or morally correct way to do this!
I also think we got a little taste of Estelle’s modus operandi here when she jumped on and said we were being awful.
Honestly read this thread UP UNTIL the point she jumped on and tell me exactly who was “awful”??
Honestly read this thread UP UNTIL the point she jumped on and tell me exactly who was “awful”??
Shackles
The pen is mightier than the sword.
I thought it was a good thing she stayed longer because we get to see more sides to her ("shut the fuck up Tim" - didn't expect that from her lmao).
I still think that she should've stayed. She has always entertained me.
I admit that moment was pretty funny. It reminded me of a Tully moment when she said that to Tim for some reason.
In the Ben Norris podcast Gabbie made the point that “head players” think about who to save to further their game.
“Heart players” try to save those who they have made an emotional connection with … hoping that their friend will….. what? Further their game.
It’s both strategic.
I keep quoting because I think it’s so spot on, Tim said heart moves are just head moves wrapped in emotion.
No doubt Estelle provided plenty of entertainment this season!
Melore
Tiny Member
Yeah, it's a bit of a bogus self-declaration.
Wasn't much "heart" showing in her eyes when she targeted and then evicted Jules...
No sign of "heart" when Taras came sheepishly into the arcade room, and tried to smooth things over between them.
Nothing "heart" related in that final pitch - no care for Reggie, just ruthless desire to manipulate her way back in. Which is part of the game, but come on, have a heart - like Tim did when he was up against Reggie and Estelle.
And not much "heart' involved in attacking former housemates and/or former friends online months after leaving the show; or declaring in these threads they have no right to speak up for themselves at all.
I don't think being overly, outwardly, or histrionically emotional means you are a "heart" player, or have more "heart" than other players. Other people get hurt, and may have emotions ricocheting about inside, but restrain themselves from reactive outbursts.
Reggie and Dave played with a lot of heart. But I cannot imagine them saying pompously, "Unlike you, I am a heart player."
I hope I never hear that bogus term, which seemed invented to elevate herself as some sort of morally superior person, in this game, ever again.
But the moral high horse Estelle is apparently riding around on is, "please don't lie to me." It's the lowest of all possible moral high grounds. Which is why it's so ridiculous people act like it's some unreasonable moral outrage.
Yeah you can lie in Big Brother, it's valid game play. It doesn't mean it can't be notice it is not nice game play.
People in the house like Tim make a big point about Estelle having a giant moral high horse as a deflection from how low he is willing to play the game. Then for whatever reason here, people just pick up on the crap housemates say while playing their game and pretend it is gospel.
Just think, Estelle's moral outrage is she doesn't want people to lie to her. WHAT AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST!
She has lied as a part of the game as has everyone else. So actually yes it’s an unreasonable request. Don’t hate the players, hate the game.
I’m probably just being a bit contrarian now, but I think it goes to the heart of the point. She is holding others to a standard she herself doesn’t keep.
Of course you want people to be honest and play with you all the time. It’s simply not the game and my point is that it doesn’t make Tim and Taras and others bad people.
Dave def is someone who I say has heart, not played with heart, but honestly is all heart at times. I mean he tried to play the game, shockingly, but he knew was not in it to win it. He was okay to lose to reggie and was okay to leave. He left all the emotions at the door and continues to try and have a good relationship with everyone outside the house. His video the other night on bb, talking about Reggie’s difficult circumstances and hoping she was still in the house- that’s heart. Tully continues to give support to all the newbies outside the house understanding the vitriol hate they are receiving- that’s heart.
Sorry but if we’re talking about heart then that’s my definition of showing it. Everyone is playing a game, there are no heart plays in a game when you are looking at yourself as number 1 to win a game.
Sorry but if we’re talking about heart then that’s my definition of showing it. Everyone is playing a game, there are no heart plays in a game when you are looking at yourself as number 1 to win a game.
I think most of the comments were honest and warranted reactions of people that, for the most part, have supported Estelle all season, but were a little taken aback by her actions and reactions over that episode (and the one following). Mostly peoples reactions were consistent to how the react to other house mates, if anything probably were more positive than some others would have got in the same circumstance. She is saying she doesn't like being lied to, yet she is actually trying to lie to the viewing audience when she continues to say she stepped off. Maybe we, people who have supported her, don't like being lied to either.
Especially when you see how much she turned on the hustle the next night, this whole thing has come across as so disingenuous it has made me question it all. I feel like that whole thing was to take the focus away from Tim's first nomination in the moment, and make Taras look bad and damage his chances of winning, maybe to help Reggie? Maybe out of guilt for doing the hustle against her when she left?
AgreeThat’s how I feel. This could have turned so nasty had it been another person. I mean when Sam reacted after being put up, well we went wild on her reactions. Estelle did not handle being put up very well, and she didn’t get the reaction from us that Sam did. Sure different circumstances, but it’s the disbelief she was put up which was similarif anything probably were more positive than some others would have got in the same circumstance.
Meglos
HAVE A NECTARINE, GONK
I know it's not your point, which I do agree with, but...
I just can't and won't listen to a Ben Norris podcast.
Just the thought of him conjures up memories of the toxic and nasty sides of Big Brother contestants.
I find it a bit much that he is now dining out on having a media career based on Big Brother when his initial contribution was so negative..
Fair enough.
For me it was so long ago, I’m not holding it against him anymore.
Plus he literally LOVES Big Brother and knows the inside out of it so I find his interviews fascinating.
It's a game where deceit is a perfectly viable strategy.
What happens in the game should stay in the game and if somebody is lying and manipulating their way to get to the end that deserves respect.
It's good gameplay, not bad sportsmanship.
Don't disagree. Just saying that doesn't shield someone from criticising it or being upset about it.
