Skip to main content

Drew & Tully 2013 vs Marty & Jess 2002

Coppelia

Coppelia

Guilt free
Awesome site donor
Big Brother 2013
1. Tully had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Tully started a relationship with Drew while in the house.
3. Tully's girlfriend has made a decision to leave the relationship, which Tully won't know until she leaves the house.

Big Brother 2002
1. Marty had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Marty started a relationship with Jess while in the house.
3. Marty's girlfriend made a decision to leave the relationship, which Marty didn't know until he left the house.

But... I don't remember anyone putting this much effort into hating Marty and publicly ripping him to shreds. There were discussions that painted him as "not too flash", but they didn't reach fever pitch. I don't remember any of his friends making statements about not being able to condone his behaviour, and then withdrawing their efforts to keep him in the house (quite the opposite). He even went on to be the runner up that season.

What are the differences here? Is it that society is more accepting of men in these situations, and more willing to condemn women?
Marty was a likeable country boy and a bit of a larrikin. Do we have one set of relationship rules for people who are conventionally likeable, and another for those who are harder to take to?
Is the fact that the LGBT community are still in a lot of ways (unfortunately) a marginalised group, making people want to fight Tully's girlfriend's battle more fervently?

Two very similar situations, and two extremely different reactions from both friends and the viewers.
 
No Facebook, Twitter or even BBB forum in 2002. Can't judge what people were thinking when there was no social media.
 
Mrs Butterface said:
No Facebook, Twitter or even BBB forum in 2002. Can't judge what people were thinking when there was no social media.
Click to expand...

Exactly... but people are making huge deal because it gave them (including me) the green light or an excuse to dislike Tully more.

PS. I bet that Marty doesnt have a sucky personality as Tully so..
 
Mrs Butterface said:
No Facebook, Twitter or even BBB forum in 2002. Can't judge what people were thinking when there was no social media.
Click to expand...

We were discussing Big Brother in online forums plenty in 2002. Just as much as now. There were no secrets about how many people had what opinion (and no need to communicate via smoke signals lol).

And even if it were the case that online communication fell short... I don't think it's the case that the public had the same reaction then as now, but just couldn't tell each other. Marty remained one of the most popular housemates, and the relationship between he and Jess got a short spin off series.

The lack of Twitter and Facebook might explain a little... but not a lot.
 
Coppelia said:
We were discussing Big Brother in online forums plenty in 2002. Just as much as now. There were no secrets about how many people had what opinion (and no need to communicate via smoke signals lol).

And even if it were the case that online communication fell short... I don't think it's the case that the public had the same reaction then as now, but just couldn't tell each other. Marty remained one of the most popular housemates, and the relationship between he and Jess got a short spin off series.

The lack of Twitter and Facebook might explain a little... but not a lot.
Click to expand...
So 11 years ago where were you discussing it plenty that would equate to any kind of social media engagement equivalent today across Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, forums, email? Seriously that's a joke. There is no hope that there was anything close to as accessible for people. Cripes in 2002 many people didn't even have Internet past dialup in Australia. You can't compare a situation 11 years ago with what's happened today and even worse try to attribute it to misogyny, personality or a bias against the LGBT community. People couldn't chat as freely back then because those social media platforms didn't even exist. Cripes, did Myspace even exist???!!! It's not too hard to see why the comparison is too difficult to even attempt.
 
It's more than possible to make a comparison between that situation and this situation.

We all watched while the Jess and Marty situation played out, we saw his girlfriend's reaction (she spoke about it publicly), the public voted based on the content of the show... and the fact that Marty was on with the new before being off with the old, didn't get him evicted.

I did say that newer social media has a bit to do with it, but it isn't everything. It's not like 11 years ago cheating was a socially acceptable interaction... but then along came social media, and then we decided it was unacceptable.
 
Coppelia said:
It's more than possible to make a comparison between that situation and this situation.

We all watched while the Jess and Marty situation played out, we saw his girlfriend's reaction (she spoke about it publicly), the public voted based on the content of the show... and the fact that Marty was on with the new before being off with the old, didn't get him evicted.

I did say that newer social media has a bit to do with it, but it isn't everything. It's not like 11 years ago cheating was a socially acceptable interaction... but then along came social media, and then we decided it was unacceptable.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying. Cripes I'm in my mid 30s and work in the entertainment industry... I know life before and after social media. But I disagree totally that you can make a comparison because it's not realistic. The official BB Facebook page has over 600k likes alone. I'm not one of them even though I check it multiple times a day so how many more of me are there? Twitter accounts of each HM and then their fan pages... God who knows how many people they are. Then the pages like "I hate Tully" with 50k likes, Instagram pages, forum users here, etc. I trust that you were chatting about BB back in the day but if there is no way your 'plenty' equaled anything close to the engagement BB has now. A few hundred people if that talking about BB doesn't equal "plenty".

So to make a comparison to how the general public acted when the majority of people were relying on snail mail or a dialup or if they were lucky stumbled on a BB forum? No way. You're talking over a decade ago with major advancements in not only Internet accessibility and rate of usage at home but the advent of social media. Cripes only 53% of households in all of Australia had Internet access in 2003 and I guarantee 100% of that 53% didn't care about BB. And that's way before smartphones! http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]?opendocument

No way can we compare the two based on what you've heard in a forum or what was said publicly that long ago.
 
The public discussion back then was being guided a lot more by the host and by the huge media interest in the show, ie by professionals, rather than by armchair commentators at home. So you had the discussion being led by Rove, by The Panel, by radio hosts, by magazines, and by Gretel on the show, which back then had more in-depth chats with family members than it has now. We don't get that warmer, gentler portrayal of the housemates now, and the discussion isn't led by sane, rational commentators any more, the commentary is just left up to fans without the conversation being guided at all. That's one of the downsides of Uplate being axed. Mikey could be a bit biased, but at least he cared about the well-being of the housemates and would defend them against anything too harsh.

I agree with your post Coppelia, she shouldn't be judged any harsher than Marty was.
 
I disliked Tully before the affair. The affair is just something else she has done I disagree with. Didn't see 2002 so can't comment
 
MissKLee said:
THIS! Marty was lovable. I don't dislike Tully because she's a cheater, I dislike her personality.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% with this.

I disliked Tully when she started making everything about her, and in a very negative way. The cheating to me is just another way of making it all about her, as in 'I can make the most deep and meaningful connections more then anyone else.' Jess as I remember copped a lot for being the other woman. And did Marty also continue to say things like 'I love my girlfriend, she is happy with me doing this' kind of remarks? I think that's more a grating point for me then whatever she may have with Drew. (Personally I think she is just using him but moving on). If you have found someone else fine, but just accept it and stop making excuses for it.
 
Coppelia said:
Big Brother 2013
1. Tully had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Tully started a relationship with Drew while in the house.
3. Tully's girlfriend has made a decision to leave the relationship, which Tully won't know until she leaves the house.

Big Brother 2002
1. Marty had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Marty started a relationship with Jess while in the house.
3. Marty's girlfriend made a decision to leave the relationship, which Marty didn't know until he left the house.

But... I don't remember anyone putting this much effort into hating Marty and publicly ripping him to shreds. There were discussions that painted him as "not too flash", but they didn't reach fever pitch. I don't remember any of his friends making statements about not being able to condone his behaviour, and then withdrawing their efforts to keep him in the house (quite the opposite). He even went on to be the runner up that season.

What are the differences here? Is it that society is more accepting of men in these situations, and more willing to condemn women?
Marty was a likeable country boy and a bit of a larrikin. Do we have one set of relationship rules for people who are conventionally likeable, and another for those who are harder to take to?
Is the fact that the LGBT community are still in a lot of ways (unfortunately) a marginalised group, making people want to fight Tully's girlfriend's battle more fervently?

Two very similar situations, and two extremely different reactions from both friends and the viewers.
Click to expand...

You missed out one massive factor which is that Tully portrayed herself as a lesbian and is hugely in the lesbian scene.
Here's something for you to think about because its more appropriate, a straight male with a girlfriend who cheats with another guy in the house.
This is unprecedented.
You also don't compare their personalities or their age (I think Marty was barely 20?)
If you think there's a sexist approach to reacting to this sort of thing perhaps you should google Wayne Carey.

I definitely think this girl is getting too much backlash but I don't believe the angle you're using is appropriate.
 
I really have no idea about Marty & Jess as it's before my time. Personally I wouldn't have liked him after he became a cheater but I can't speak for anyone else.

Can anyone tell me did Marty deny he was cheating and continually say how much he loved his girlfriend, whilst simultaneously making out with Jess under towels and doonas? Because for a lot of people I know the fact that Tully doesn't see anything wrong with what her and Drew are doing, despite multiple other HMs telling her it's not a good look, is what pisses them off the most.
 
i dont even remember one of them being in a relationship outside the house but they were open about what they were doing so the jilted partner certainly wouldnt have been left wondering.


also they were likeable people. the whole cheating thing is just one of a many reasons to despise Tully.
 
cheating is cheating what ever way you say it if it is done by a sook or a supposedly nice boy.all I can say is they cant or were not happy with their partner outside.
 
There was no twitter, Instagram or Facebook, but there were bb forums. The official site had them (rip official site forums - they were great back in the day) but I'm not sure if behind big brother had them then?

There was probably some disagreement with it but I think it was largely glossed over as Marty was 'cheeky and cute' a 'lovable larrikin' and Jess appealed to the kiddie audience and they being together was thought of as sweet and who cared if Marty supposedly had some girlfriend of sorts, as people wanted to see these together. Although these two were more of an official couple (they didn't try and hide their affection as Tully and drew do) inside the house they didn't depend on each other as Tully does with leeching Drew.
 
i don't think anyone even knew marty had a girlfriend until she did an interview with a womans mag part way through the series, or at least i didn't because not everyone was hooked up to the internet back then, and by that time marty and jess were already in a relationship, the public already loved them as a couple. Not saying that's ok but it is probably one of the reasons there wasn't so much of a stink over it...no one knew until after the fact. Also everyone loved them individually as well and they were happy and good together...the whole relationship from beginning to end was very different.

Tully was already disliked by so many because of her whinging and tantrums, she was very open about being in a relationship, her partner was by her side in the first show and first "package" we were shown of tully, she actively went after drew when he was interested in someone else....meaning they didn't just happen to fall for each other, she could have easily avoided the relationship that formed but looks like she set her sites on him and used her emotional manipulation techniques (very superhero-ish of her) to drive a wedge between him and jade....i mean we all saw it and commented on it....ooh tully is interested in drew, she is always telling him how stupid jade is making him look...because she cares for him, she's his friend not jade etc etc and sure enough she was in his bed first chance she got...and the relationship is sick. sick sick sick. She is always telling him how to behave, what to say and controls his every move by using her emotional blackmail and he enables her sooking and whinging whenever anyone calls her out on her bull shit...

she was not well liked, he was adored, she has a partner and continues to talk about her while canoodling with drew and expecting him to be completely devoted to her no matter what while she fishes for compliments. Basically he must be there for her always, forsaking all others while she can do what she wants...the way it started was pathetic (a person in a relationship being the one who pursued the other), the way it has continued has been disturbing with passive aggressive and verbal abuse, they are horrible together, just horrible..so there is more to it than just the cheating aspect, there is so much more to not like.

basically nobody agrees with the cheating, but it has become a big deal because we are able to talk about it as it happens. And when people have differing views the arguments go on and on making it bigger than it would be if everyone was on the same page...but even more so there is just so many things to not like about it all, from the people involved to the way the relationship is so co-dependent and maddening to watch. If they were good for each other and with each other then people would just be against them cheating but everything about them together is so damn wrong and ugly.

edit: wow that was longer than i realised, just typing out loud i think.
 
Jo-bot said:
edit: wow that was longer than i realised, just typing out loud i think.
Click to expand...

this is a good summary of all the secondary differences, besides social media.

i'd like to comment further on the nature of their relationship. I'll start by saying that, generally, i think that nobody knows what's right in a relationship except the two people within it; what two consenting adults agree to as healthy between them is, by definition, acceptable.

wife swap is a show that showcases this quite well. i remember one couple where the husband was a worm - wouldn't even comb his own hair (what little of it there was), and the swapped wife was all "comb your own damn hair you lazy turd". but when his wife came back, she was delighted to comb his hair for him, and expressed how much joy it gave her to take care of him and he was obviously happy to have her back. when I saw them together, I saw genuine love and adoration by both of them; it wasn't parasitic, it was symbiotic.

of course, we all know it isn't always. abusive relationships are unfortunately real, where the physical health, safety and well-being of one partner can be at risk from the other. there's also cases where the abuse is "only" verbal or emotional. and we view these also as wrong. but behind these views is an underlying assumption.... and that assumption is that the abused partner is not consenting.

what happens when it is complicit? that physical abuse might even be limited to an agreed scope (hello 50 shades). or maybe that emotionally belittled and blackmailed partner has expressed that they're drowning, in over their head, but keeps going along with it. from the outside perspective, the behaviour looks over the line... but from the inside, those are two consenting adults.

and that's the where the line is - a relationship is considered right (for them), at least by our legal standards and social norms, until one of them expresses the explicit desire to get out.

of course, those legal standards and social norms don't dissuade any one from having opinions on the matter, tapping into their own personal preferences, morals and sense of justice. it also won't step them from being concerned about one partner or the other, or expressing that concern in emtionally heated ways, particularly where we have come to care about the abused partner, or perhaps even cared for them before the relationship began.

and here's the other funny thing about lines - those people who are upset due to their morals or preferences, and who express them in heated ways, right up to and including wanting to see the perceived-abuser die a horrible death, are actually free to do so as well. because the line, legally and socially, is acting upon those expressions.

of course, those legal standards and social norms don't dissuade any one from having opinions on the matter... and so the dance goes on
 
Coppelia said:
Big Brother 2013
1. Tully had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Tully started a relationship with Drew while in the house.
3. Tully's girlfriend has made a decision to leave the relationship, which Tully won't know until she leaves the house.

Big Brother 2002
1. Marty had a girlfriend before entering the house.
2. Marty started a relationship with Jess while in the house.
3. Marty's girlfriend made a decision to leave the relationship, which Marty didn't know until he left the house.

But... I don't remember anyone putting this much effort into hating Marty and publicly ripping him to shreds. There were discussions that painted him as "not too flash", but they didn't reach fever pitch. I don't remember any of his friends making statements about not being able to condone his behaviour, and then withdrawing their efforts to keep him in the house (quite the opposite). He even went on to be the runner up that season.

What are the differences here? Is it that society is more accepting of men in these situations, and more willing to condemn women?
Marty was a likeable country boy and a bit of a larrikin. Do we have one set of relationship rules for people who are conventionally likeable, and another for those who are harder to take to?
Is the fact that the LGBT community are still in a lot of ways (unfortunately) a marginalised group, making people want to fight Tully's girlfriend's battle more fervently?

Two very similar situations, and two extremely different reactions from both friends and the viewers.
Click to expand...

I agree with all you said. That is the way I see it as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top