AJ Mass' theory of Archetypes in Big Brother

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
I've heard this AJ Mass on RHAP a few times talking about the 12 archetypes in games like Big Brother and Survivor. It is from his book How Fantasy Sports Explain the World. I haven't read it. Google it and listen to a podcast if you are interested. These are the 12 personality types you want on a successful team, or cast.

These are the archetypes.


Fresh Meat: Clueless, no idea what they are doing. No strategy.

The Ninja: The invisible one. The one you always forget. Quiet. Not involved. Always listening.

The Cheerleader: Just wants people to get along. Can be fun. Cheers for winners.

The Narcissist: It is all about them. Rub people the wrong way. Often a big target. Very hard to win.

Old Reliable: Blah.

The Idiot Savant: Makes crazy moves that somehow keep coming off. Influenced by others, but chooses the right side.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Shares a vote with the senior partner.

The Loose Cannon: Unpredictable, crazy, could snap at any time, may not, though.

The Diplomat: Liked by everyone. Can move between groups.

The X Factor: One of these players is not like the others.

The Mad Scientist: The puppetmaster. Implements plans that tend to come off.

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Votes with partner, but is less of a target.


The ones at the top of the list have less chance of winning than the ones at the bottom. The power rankings given here are for the archetypes, not the a specific person. The Senior Partner, if they start acting like a narcissist, will probably go home. No one above Idiot Savant has ever won the US version.


I am pretty sure that is how they go. As I say, I haven't read the book, but as far as I recall, this is how it goes.

So, whom is which?
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Fresh Meat: Jade. No idea what a tramp she looks like and is thought of as.

The Ninja: Ed. All he has is handsome.

The Cheerleader: K and L

The Narcissist: Tully. I like you kitten, but get over yourself, please. It may be too late.

Old Reliable: Blah. Matt.

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla. She has had crazy luck so far.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Tim. I love za, but too big of a target.

The Loose Cannon: Tahan. You are not even sure if she will be really clever an sweet today, or will call Lucy's ankles fat.

The Diplomat: Caleb. I see him making inroads to Tim and Drew once Ed and Matt are gone.

The X Factor: Ben.

The Mad Scientist: Heidi. This one is purely because she was the only name left over at the end. Somehow appropriate? Dunno. Need to think.

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Drew.









So, from that, any of the
 

pinch_of_hope

New Member
Fresh Meat: Jade, but unlike you I think thats what makes her likeable and sympathetic, she's clueless and weird.
The Ninja: Heidi. No one cares, she's be gone as soon as she's up.
The Cheerleader: Katie & Lucy (duh).
The Narcissist: Tully, the villain.
Old Reliable: Ben, his schtick will get old (ala Bradley), I don't think he's a lock for the top 3 as much as people think he is.
The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla, she's not an idiot though, just lucky.
The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Caleb (with Matthew). Their fanbase is already pimping the 'bromance' thing for votes.
The Loose Cannon: Tahan, her character for the show keeps shifting, spoiled whiny princess, free-spirited fun girl, bratty mean girl, you never know how its going to respond with the audience.
The Diplomat: Ed is trying to be, but he will fail.
The X Factor: Drew, he will win. He appeals to all the fanbases and demographics, everyone would be happy with him going far.
The Mad Scientist: Tim.
Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Matthew (with Caleb).
 

Sorceress

..Bow Down To Thee..
Fresh Meat: Jade, but unlike you I think thats what makes her likeable and sympathetic, she's clueless and weird.
The Ninja: Heidi. No one cares, she's be gone as soon as she's up.
The Cheerleader: Katie & Lucy (duh).
The Narcissist: Tully, the villain.
Old Reliable: Ben, his schtick will get old (ala Bradley), I don't think he's a lock for the top 3 as much as people think he is.
The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla, she's not an idiot though, just lucky.
The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Caleb (with Matthew). Their fanbase is already pimping the 'bromance' thing for votes.
The Loose Cannon: Tahan, her character for the show keeps shifting, spoiled whiny princess, free-spirited fun girl, bratty mean girl, you never know how its going to respond with the audience.
The Diplomat: Ed is trying to be, but he will fail.
The X Factor: Drew, he will win. He appeals to all the fanbases and demographics, everyone would be happy with him going far.
The Mad Scientist: Tim.
Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Matthew (with Caleb).
I pretty much agree with this.
I think Tully and Tim are interchangable.
 

torifrog

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
Fresh Meat: Sharon

The Ninja: Jasmin

The Cheerleader: Sisters

The Narcissist: Tully

Old Reliable: Ed

The Idiot Savant: Tahan

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Matt

The Loose Cannon: Mikkayla

The Diplomat: Drew

The X Factor: Ben

The Mad Scientist: Tim

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Caleb
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Fresh Meat: Jade. No idea what a tramp she looks like and is thought of as.

The Ninja: Ed. All he has is handsome.

The Cheerleader: K and L

The Narcissist: Tully. I like you kitten, but get over yourself, please. It may be too late.

Old Reliable: Blah. Matt.

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla. She has had crazy luck so far.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Tim. I love za, but too big of a target.

The Loose Cannon: Tahan. You are not even sure if she will be really clever an sweet today, or will call Lucy's ankles fat.

The Diplomat: Caleb. I see him making inroads to Tim and Drew once Ed and Matt are gone.

The X Factor: Ben.

The Mad Scientist: Heidi. This one is purely because she was the only name left over at the end. Somehow appropriate? Dunno. Need to think.

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Drew.


I am not happy with Heidi. You guys are right, Heidi is the ninja, and Ed is the Mad Scientist. It doesn't quite fit, but seeing him reject Jade while keeping her vote, telling Caleb and Matt who to vote for, trying to take out Tim and now Drew, he has his plans, his puppets, too. Dumb, meaty puppets.

Fresh Meat: Jade.

The Ninja: Heidi.

The Cheerleader: K and L

The Narcissist: Tully.

Old Reliable: Matt.

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Tim.

The Loose Cannon: Tahan.

The Diplomat: Caleb.

The X Factor: Ben.

The Mad Scientist: Ed

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Drew.


I am much happier with this list now. I think I can stick with this.
 

torifrog

Well-Known Member
Awesome site donor
Fresh Meat: Jade.

The Ninja: Heidi.

The Cheerleader: K and L

The Narcissist: Tully.

Old Reliable: Matt.

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Tim.

The Loose Cannon: Tahan.

The Diplomat: Caleb.

The X Factor: Ben.

The Mad Scientist: Ed

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Drew.


I am much happier with this list now. I think I can stick with this.

You really see Ed as "The puppetmaster. Implements plans that tend to come off."???

I couldn't disagree more.
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
He is a threat. He is trying, and has the boys in line. He thought he had the girls too, and did early on, but he neglected the power of The Underground. Tim as a loudmouth and Drew as a goth have probably hated the alpha type blokes all their adolescence, and they are keeping Ed in check. He wasn't expecting it, and is starting to analyse their tactics, and seeing that there is a danger.

Tim would make a great Mad Scientist, but I want the couple to be him and Drew, who is not such a diplomat with the jocks, obviously.
 

lafirenze

Active Member
Fresh Meat: Jade.

The Ninja: Katie.

The Cheerleader: Lucy.

The Narcissist: ?

Old Reliable: Matt, Heidi.

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Tim.

The Loose Cannon: Tully.

The Diplomat: Ed.

The X Factor: Tahan.

The Mad Scientist: Caleb.

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Drew.

Sorta? I don't know where Ben would go. X Factor maybe? Him and Tahan both seem like outsiders to me.
 

GalPal

Well-Known Member
Fresh Meat: Clueless, no idea what they are doing. No strategy. I don't think this is Jade at all. She is very strategic in nominations, she has made plays for the boys....... Now the poor beautiful me....sob, sob, sob. Now if that isn't strategic, I don't know what is lol
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Oh, she thinks she is being strategic, sure.Most fresh meaters are sure they are in control of the whole game until they are blindsided. She is making a play for Ed, but does she see what he thinks of her? Does she know what the other girls think of her? Has she got any influence anywhere in the house?
 

GalPal

Well-Known Member
Oh, she thinks she is being strategic, sure.Most fresh meaters are sure they are in control of the whole game until they are blindsided. She is making a play for Ed, but does she see what he thinks of her? Does she know what the other girls think of her? Has she got any influence anywhere in the house?

Why would she care what Ed says, he says one thing and acts another. Stringing Drew along (he won't nominate her) and now palsy with Tim as those two are partners in crime, Sugar Sisters have her back and she's chummy with Mikkayla. Super friendly with the boys apart from Ben and Matt has her sussed. Heidi may not be in her corner but will she nominate her. Tully and her friends - give or take. I'd say she has a pretty broad base covered.
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
I think Jade's position is tenuous, because she has based it all on flirting. I remember a blonde did a similar thing on the season with the house in two halves. She seemed shocked when Gretel showed her the footage. It was only then she realized that the only way she interacted with men was to flirt with them. It doesn't make strong bonds.

Ed says one thing and does another because she is pretty and he doesn't respect her. Caleb gets on ok with her, but she isn't in his final three. Or final four. Or final five. Matt is immune.

If Drew ever did have strong feelings for Jade, if she ever did get him that well, then it is more likely that he could turn on her than if they had a less volatile bond. If she had just been a good friend, then I think he would certainly plan to take her to the end. But infatuation is unpredictable. She may have Drew, but it is not the most secure of holds. Rejection hurts, and she is so close to hurting him. The only thing that would stop him from getting hurt is if he doesn't care too much about her.

Timmy would take her down without thinking if he was to win because of it. And there is nothing special with Ben.

Both Mikkayla and Heidi dislike the way she flirts.

I don't think her position is that strong. Sometimes Fresh Meat can get dragged along if they make up the numbers in a strong alliance. She went in with completely the wrong idea about what her strengths are.
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Fresh Meat: Jade

The Ninja: Matt, because he is the last one left of the final 12. Really, Shaz

The Cheerleader: Caleb

The Narcissist: Tully

Old Reliable: Ed

The Idiot Savant: Mikkayla

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner: Lucy

The Loose Cannon: Tahan

The Diplomat: Drew

The X Factor: Ben

The Mad Scientist: Tim

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Katie
.
I have had a rethink. Of course the couple is Katie and Lucy. Derr. And with the names, senior and junior, it is almost opposite in reality. What I called junior really means the one with the big target on then who will be eliminated, like Amanda in the current BBUS.
 

kxk

SAPIOSEXUAL
Awesome thought provoking topic Winterbourne - nice to see you around again, I am assuming it's the same W, who used to hang out here???

Some of those categories & our Hms are quite difficult to match up, I reckon Tim may encompass a few/
The clearest to me are Tully is the narcissist, Jade is the fresh meat but she's not an idiot.

And thanks, now she is categorised, right or wrongly, I may find it easier to watch ...................as a specimen, because hell she makes it hard.

Fascinating re winners and that line - different cultures, we have had winners from all over that line.
Matching past RTV people is easier -
Ben 1 -old reliable/ninja?
Peter-ninja
Reggie - fresh meat
Trevor - ninja
Logan - fresh meat

Rest - mostly fresh meat winners.

Have you heard another theory re, in BB usually HMS emerge that are the heart & the soul of the house, sometimes the brain is separate but how the house thinks generally follows either the heart or the soul.
Heart & soul are usually friends, rarely enemies.
Often they are the last 2, or one comes 3rd...........and we usually hate that

Souls -
Sarah Marie
Tim Brunero

At this point Tim is the soul in that house, Drew is the heart - and it's hurting, we want to heal that affliction the only way we know by throwing Tully out.

Jade is emerging as a possible heart HM, she is so wistful and shattered at times I can feel her hurt,
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Very interesting. For me, I would say Logan was the marriage - I think I prefer Jung's and Joseph Campbell's name though of The Twins. And I think Reggie was the X Factor.

Actually, from a Jungian point of view, I was just thinking about the hms people choose to like or identify with, especially of the opposite sex.

If Ed is a handsome blank canvas for girls to project their ideal man onto, then I guess that projection must come from within, which would be, in Jungian terms, the anima, or animus. I noticed this in high school. There was a girl from another school who caught the same train home each day. and I grew obsessed with her. She was quiet, and looked like there were unending depths to her soul and secret thoughts. She did what Ed does, never said yes, but never said a categorical 'No.' So hope sprang eternal. At uni I met another girl like her, and realised I had just projected an ideal onto them, and that she never talked meant she never proved me wrong. This girl was actually my anima, the female aspect of my personality, and my ideal female.

So Ed is clearly Jade's animus. Her internalized ideal man.

As viewers, the HMs we identify with, especially ones of the opposite gender, are actually recipients of projections of our anima/animus. In this house, Tully has some aspects that I liked, that I first saw as she chatted through the wall to Drew. Unfortunately, her actual personality is not 100% the same as what I thought, so disappointment that she is her, and not just a part of me.

Continuing the Jungian thing, I guess Tim is the Trickster god, the girls are the Twins, BB the Mentor... Dunno where that gets me though.

Hmm, I might start thinking about Campbell's Hero Quest thing, and see if I can predict the winner from that. As a predictor, the AJ Mass team archetypes seem to be working. Ninja, reliable and cheerleaders Matt, Ed, Caleb all gone or in trouble. X Factor and Mad Scientist both looking okay.
 
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Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
Have you heard another theory re, in BB usually HMS emerge that are the heart & the soul of the house, sometimes the brain is separate but how the house thinks generally follows either the heart or the soul.
Heart & soul are usually friends, rarely enemies.
Often they are the last 2, or one comes 3rd...........and we usually hate that

Souls -
Sarah Marie
Tim Brunero

At this point Tim is the soul in that house, Drew is the heart - and it's hurting, we want to heal that affliction the only way we know by throwing Tully out.

Jade is emerging as a possible heart HM, she is so wistful and shattered at times I can feel her hurt,

I haven't heard this theory, and I have been pondering it all day, and I don't think I understand. Could you elaborate?
 

Winterbourne

Unfallen Icarus
From what I remember about animas and animuses they are broken into four levels, represented by different archetypes.

Animus
1 - Tarzan.
2 - Businessman / Byronic hero
3 - Teacher
4 - Guru / Mercury (a messenger from the gods)

This means if a woman's ideal idea of a man is at level one she thinks the greatest quality is physical strength and presence. I would suspect any housemate who gave their reason for liking Matt as 'his body' would be at this level.Level two is a man who is successful in the world of men and has a brain. Ed sits here, I guess. Drew, too, as the classic Romantic hero - a scholar, alover, bit of a dark side. Level three is the teacher who can help you to grow and learn, or who is a great speaker. I am not sure any of this year's hms fit this. Tim Brunero had this in spades. There was no way ... Kate (?) was going to like him or see him as a potential mate. Her animus was clearly stuck at level one, fancying the handsome and bland Logan. The level four animus is someone who can guide you spiritually. Tim has a bit of this going on. And none of the girls have gone for it. But he has that veneer of childishness and adhd which may be hard to crack. Drew sees Tim this way, though.

For the lads, the anima levels are
1 - Eve - physically desirable, drive to reproduce
2 - Helen - beautiful, romantic, sexual, but has a personality
3 - Virgin Mary - a love beyond the physical, getting into deeper parts of yourself
4 - Sophia, goddess of wisdom - understands the evolution and unity of physical, spiritual and mental.

Basically, as I understand it, and I am not an expert at all, just read a few books, your 'souls' developmental stage can be guaged by your anima, and also, I guess, determined by it. If I spent time watching porn I know I think of the women I meet in a less 'evolved' way than ifI have an image in my mind of Mary, say. I think this is why the old knights used to have a virgin untouchable woman to quest for, orwhy the cult of Mary arose. It makes you a better person if you think your ideal love is someone like Mary or a wise teacher than if you just want tits and abs.

It fascinates me that Jade sees her ideal as Ed. She thinks she deserves no better, I guess. Or from where she stands she cannot, or will not. see that there is better out there. For Ed, she is lower than his anima, because he sees her as a body to ignore until he wants a kiss and a cuddle. I don't know where homosexuality fits in here, and the behaviour of these heavily muscled men is as distinctly bromoerotic as Top Gun or 300.

The other couple is Drully. Tully is not just a physical beauty to Drew. He seemed happier with Jade, calmer, like a caring teacher, but he said he is more honest with Tully, the connection is deeper somehow. I think he is stuck at Helen. He could only see the Eve in Jade, which is all she can see herself, but her snake-charming skills suggest the Mary within. He has gone with the Helen Tully. She may start a war which launches a thousand ships, but at first he felt he could talk to her.. ( Now I think she is more a Shadow than an anima to him. He shrinks his true personality into a ball so it wont be too damaged by her assaults and fears that he cannot be alone. It only hurts if you hold on, Drew.)

Why doesn't BBAU have academics and psychologists and sociologists and body-language experts on talking about stuff?
 

Afflllate

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't BBAU have academics and psychologists and sociologists and body-language experts on talking about stuff?

Remember Carmel Hill? They used to have her on during the noms way back in BB01-02. I Remember she was the go to analysing Turkan's mental state when she had that mini breakdown in '02 and wanted to leave the house.

[video=youtube;FvXyEd-JX5w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvXyEd-JX5w[/video]
 

joedingles

Active Member
Fresh Meat: Sugar sisters

The Ninja: Ben

The Cheerleader: Jade

The Narcissist: Tahan

Old Reliable: Matt

The Idiot Savant: none really.

The Marriage of Convenience, junior partner:

The Loose Cannon: Tully

The Diplomat: Drew

The X Factor: Mikkayla

The Mad Scientist: Tim

Marriage of Convenience, senior partner: Ed
 
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