Episode BBAU 2022 - Episode 26 Discussion (4 July, 7:30pm)

[Zcsund1234]

This kind of perception really needs to stop. There is no chance that, in Seven’s ball of confusion of a series combined with the types of people “voting”*, that anyone is going to be held accountable for evicting a “favourite” by the time the finale comes around. Not for Reggie, not for anybody.

It is a lot smarter to rid the favourite at any point (the earlier the better, if anything) than having to stand beside them at the finale. Either way, you still have a 1 in 3 chance of winning, as opposed to virtually zero if you let Reggie get there too. And as for the public “holding it against you”… what codswalllop, seriously. If the HMs make a combined effort to evict their biggest threat, all putting a vote on them, then there’s no one really to “blame” in the end. Somebody still has to win.

*We don’t actually get the final say with non-paid voting anyway, as much as they want you to to believe it. The winner has always been chosen since day one in all three Seven seasons.

Even though it does make me sad to admit, you are 100% right. If any one of us were playing the game of Big Brother I'd bet my last dollar that we'd all vote out the people we don't think we can beat. Reggie is that person to Aleisha and Johnson.

I also would argue it's better to get out the favourite early on. If all of them had banded together to get rid of Reggie with no one person at fault then a newbie could have likely won. But they didn't. Do we entirely fault the newbies for that? Or is there some form of social credit that needs to be given to Reggie as well? I would argue that whilst she isn't the most strategically active player she has done well socially. It's one thing to generate sympathy but as the game is primarily social you do need to also possess the ability in making people respect you.

Someone with a story just as sad as Reggie's could appear in any given season, however, they may not come across as endearing or likeable as Reggie. If a person doesn't earn RESPECT with their fellow players then not even a story can help you last. I do argue that Reggie was able to allow others to offer her respect which allowed her to avoid nominations. It's not a massively notable reason for anyone to argue that she is the better player (I painfully suggest that Johnson may actually be the best player who has demonstrated the most dominance that isn't Tim) but she is by no means terrible.

I try my best to not fall into the trap of rooting for the OGs just because they're an OG. I hate that I felt that way in all Survivor seasons with returnees. I acknowledge wholeheartedly that Aleisha and Johnson needed to vote out Reggie, but there is something about hearing "it's time to go Reggie" that makes me feel sad to the pit of my stomach. Reggie is no more or less deserving than any other housemate to win the game on a human level. But just like the jury on survivor and BBUS, the voting audience has the right to vote how they please for this final vote. And if that means voting against the newbies as an act of support for Reggie, then the audience does have the right to vote that way if they please. Tim nailed it when he said very early on that voting out Drew over Mel would be dangerous as the audience would not be happy.

The newbies have definitely killed any chance of winning now. Should that be the case? No, it is beyond silly that the case is just that. But the reality is that the audience is going to be voting based on what they see. And voting Reggie out will definitely leave a bad taste in voter's mouths. So in actuality is voting Reggie out just like they did the optimal move? I'd argue not. If you aren't going to vote out Reggie as a collective early on then there's no point in doing it later on in the game unless you can convince someone else to do it and let them take the heat.

 

[bleachy_dude]

“Overly emotional”. I am only reacting to people who are playing me emotionally.
The Tim reaction is about the lies not the play. About him being privvy to the sacred game information and acting like he is actually an alley. You have to remember I have not had actual proof of anything concrete until tonight. Only feelings. I asked him at point blank after he had foiled vital plans he said he was in on. Eg : nominating Johnson in house noms with Jules and I etc. it kept happening.

You can do what you want in the game but when people act like they are playing with you. Only to be playing against you but using your safety it is the epitome of broken trust.

Yall getting super awful and personal tonight and I am shocked.

I think therein the problem. You are trying to seperate the lies from the play. They’re not separate. And that doesn’t make it wrong. Moves made INSIDE a game are not the same as lies outside of a game, yet it appears you are equating them.

I’ve said multiple times, I understand that you would be upset. The moral outrage is what I can’t get on board with. It’s a game.

I’ve tried to be fair Estelle and have had an abundance of positive posts about you and your game this season.

 

[the Theorist]

There are only three remaining HMs who have proven through and through that they deserve to take out the win - based on a combination of game, integrity and strategy, both head and heart.

One will make the finale but won’t win because they’ve been victim of production manipulation and editing.

One of them hasn’t been evicted yet but will not make the finale, and has also had their intricate gameplay interfered with by production.

And one of them earned their place in the final three long ago, got evicted tonight and sadly is looking likely not to make it back in the house.




None of them are Reggie.

 

[MattyOj]

I gotta say that I am so shocked by some of the comments I have read tonight.
I stepped away and distanced myself after Taras came in here guns blazing on a campaign trail.
This is what I have come back to?
Alot of “new members” i see who have never posted.. very interesting indeed.

Just because I haven’t explain and tried to skew views and justify does not mean I don’t have anything to say.

The shit coming your way here is not from people who usually support you. Your haters really have come out of the woodwork tonight. It’s weird.

 

[Zcsund1234]

There are only three remaining HMs who have proven through and through that they deserve to take out the win - based on a combination of game, integrity and strategy, both head and heart.

One won’t win because they’ve been victim of production manipulation and editing.

One of them has not been evicted yet but won’t make the finale, and has also had their intricate gameplay interfered with by production.

And one of them earned their place in the final three long ago, got evicted tonight and sadly is looking likely not to make it back in the house.




None of them are Reggie.

Fair assessment. I think a lot of anyone's desire to see Reggie win is purely emotional. We all love Reggie and want to see her win, but that comes from pre-season bias.

In reality I should be voting for another finalist who played the game a lot better and also came across as a very likeable character as well. Players like Johnson, Aleisha and Taras have all actually done very well. Especially when looking at all three of sevens season. It does really suck that the three of them got thrown into this OG season. It really is unfair.

 

[the Theorist]

Even though it does make me sad to admit, you are 100% right. If any one of us were playing the game of Big Brother I'd bet my last dollar that we'd all vote out the people we don't think we can beat. Reggie is that person to Aleisha and Johnson.

I also would argue it's better to get out the favourite early on. If all of them had banded together to get rid of Reggie with no one person at fault then a newbie could have likely won. But they didn't. Do we entirely fault the newbies for that? Or is there some form of social credit that needs to be given to Reggie as well? I would argue that whilst she isn't the most strategically active player she has done well socially. It's one thing to generate sympathy but as the game is primarily social you do need to also possess the ability in making people respect you.

Someone with a story just as sad as Reggie's could appear in any given season, however, they may not come across as endearing or likeable as Reggie. If a person doesn't earn RESPECT with their fellow players then not even a story can help you last. I do argue that Reggie was able to allow others to offer her respect which allowed her to avoid nominations. It's not a massively notable reason for anyone to argue that she is the better player (I painfully suggest that Johnson may actually be the best player who has demonstrated the most dominance that isn't Tim) but she is by no means terrible.

I try my best to not fall into the trap of rooting for the OGs just because they're an OG. I hate that I felt that way in all Survivor seasons with returnees. I acknowledge wholeheartedly that Aleisha and Johnson needed to vote out Reggie, but there is something about hearing "it's time to go Reggie" that makes me feel sad to the pit of my stomach. Reggie is no more or less deserving than any other housemate to win the game on a human level. But just like the jury on survivor and BBUS, the voting audience has the right to vote how they please for this final vote. And if that means voting against the newbies as an act of support for Reggie, then the audience does have the right to vote that way if they please. Tim nailed it when he said very early on that voting out Drew over Mel would be dangerous as the audience would not be happy.

The newbies have definitely killed any chance of winning now. Should that be the case? No, it is beyond silly that the case is just that. But the reality is that the audience is going to be voting based on what they see. And voting Reggie out will definitely leave a bad taste in voter's mouths. So in actuality is voting Reggie out just like they did the optimal move? I'd argue not. If you aren't going to vote out Reggie as a collective early on then there's no point in doing it later on in the game unless you can convince someone else to do it and let them take the heat.

Thank you. I appreciate your acknowledgement on that.

It is also heavily perpetuated by production, using consistent terms of “Queen” and “Royal”, and the narrative being the sole reason the viewers won’t allow anyone else to win.

I’ll be completely honest, much like many say that this season has “turned them off” Tim, this season has 100% tarnished my view of Reggie before this season also. Not necessarily in the same way that Tim’s fans have turned (his was self-inflicted) but by how Reggie has been “produced” by production this season.

I’ll say it again. Reggie is not any more special, nor deserves the win, any more than anyone else still in that house.

 

[Estelle.Landy]

The shit coming your way here is not from people who usually support you. Your haters really have come out of the woodwork tonight. It’s weird.

Yeah it is very weird reading “this is what happened” when they were not there haha

 

[Estelle.Landy]

Thank you. I appreciate your acknowledgement on that.

It is also heavily perpetuated by production, using consistent terms of “Queen” and “Royal”, and the narrative being the sole reason the viewers won’t allow anyone else to win.

I’ll be completely honest, much like many say that this season has “turned them off” Tim, this season has 100% tarnished my view of Reggie before this season also. Not necessarily in the same way that Tim’s fans have turned (his was self-inflicted) but by how Reggie has been “produced” by production this season.

I’ll say it again. Reggie is not any more special, nor deserves the win, any more than anyone else still in that house.

It is funny as I feel she is the last person produced.

 

[the Theorist]

It is funny as I feel she is the last person produced.

What I mean is more in reference to my earlier comment about the way she is edited into the show and the psychological persuasive techniques used to achieve it.

In short, the consistent persuasive language (“most beloved HM of all-time, Queen, adored, Royal, unbeatable”, etc), receives a highly positive edit, happy/funny/sad music, and the like. It doesn’t have to be so overhyped. There’s a reason the audience are feeling the way they are right now.

 

[Zcsund1234]

Yeah it is very weird reading “this is what happened” when they were not there haha

This is more of the side of the fence I am taking. We can talk for hours about this, but none of us were there. Like most things across the channel 7 iteration of the show we don't see the full picture. I am choosing not to form too too many opinions from what I see as I am only seeing snippets.

Estelle if you say you did intend to jump off then I see no reason to say you are outright lying. The footage does make it look like you chose not to and just happened to fall off, but who am I to say you weren't ready to do so but ended up falling off. I've said this to Taras already, I was not there and a lot of what has happened in the series is between yourselves. The rest of us are viewing a small portion. However we also as viewers have the rights to opinions, but I just don't see how I can formulate an accurate one in this situation.

In regards to the whole "Head and Heart player" thing, I think you and Tim both have valid points. I don't think it's as black and white as Head or Heart. You can make a head move but have heart intentions as well as vice versa. You may perceive the game as making a move that benefits yourself AS WELL as the people you want to see do well. Whereas Tim sees making moves that benefit himself. Neither approach is wrong. If you have the ability to win the game (which you both have) then however you choose to get there is up to you.

The game is a lot more complex and complicated than "head and heart". I think a lot of us are also forgetting the psychological torment that comes with the game of Big Brother. After 56 days of playing with people and feeling lied to, it's no wonder some people have unintentional outbursts. TBH yes, there would be a lot of other people who would catch on to Tim earlier, but you're not at any fault for thinking you could still trust him. That is how you choose to perceive other players and sometimes it does work out that way. You both play the game differently and that's all it is.

We all go on about how we miss the human aspects of Big Brother, so why don't we acknowledge that right now and understand that as a human being Estelle is and was entitled to emotionally respond however she wanted to. The same goes for Taras as Tim as well. They all do.

 

[Estelle.Landy]

What I mean is more in reference to my earlier comment about the way she is edited into the show and the psychological persuasive techniques used to achieve it.

In short, the consistent persuasive language (“most beloved HM of all-time, Queen, adored, Royal, unbeatable”, etc), receives a highly positive edit, happy/funny/sad music, and the like. It doesn’t have to be so overhyped. There’s a reason the audience are feeling the way they are right now.

Oh indeed. We have all been called royals, legends, king etc.

 

[bleachy_dude]

I’ll say it again. Reggie is not any more special, nor deserves the win, any more than anyone else still in that house.

You can say it until you are blue in the face.

I actually am thinking I will now vote Taras over Reggie if he gets to final 3.

Setting aside your conspiracy theory that the public votes aren’t actually used to determine the winner.
The winner of BB is not always the most “deserved”. Even in this format it’s not even the biggest game players, most strategic necessarily. The public are going to vote for Reggie if she is F3 because they love her. Imo she wins even if production didn’t use royal and queen etc.

 

[Zcsund1234]

It is funny as I feel she is the last person produced.

In some ways you are still right. Whilst the edit has been very kind to her, I would still also argue she'd win naturally on her own anyway. The person I am seeing on TV is still similar to the person I not only watched in 2003, but also the same lovely person I was EXTREMELY lucky to meet. Hence why I am left so conflicted on how to feel.

 

[bleachy_dude]

There’s a reason the audience are feeling the way they are right now.

I also think you are underestimating how naturally likeable / loveable Reggie is.

 

[Zcsund1234]

Setting aside your conspiracy theory that the public votes aren’t actually used to determine the winner.
The winner of BB is not always the most “deserved”. Even in this format it’s not even the biggest game players, most strategic necessarily. The public are going to vote for Reggie if she is F3 because they love her. Imo she wins even if production didn’t use royal and queen etc.

This is where I somewhat kind of just feel fine with voting her. Like I mentioned before, Survivor jurors have the right to be bitter when they vote, and if we as public voters choose to vote for someone and completely disregard strategy as our reason then we also have the right to do that.

 

[MattyOj]

This is more of the side of the fence I am taking. We can talk for hours about this, but none of us were there. Like most things across the channel 7 iteration of the show we don't see the full picture. I am choosing not to form too too many opinions from what I see as I am only seeing snippets.

Estelle if you say you did intend to jump off then I see no reason to say you are outright lying. The footage does make it look like you chose not to and just happened to fall off, but who am I to say you weren't ready to do so but ended up falling off. I've said this to Taras already, I was not there and a lot of what has happened in the series is between yourselves. The rest of us are viewing a small portion. However we also as viewers have the rights to opinions, but I just don't see how I can formulate an accurate one in this situation.

In regards to the whole "Head and Heart player" thing, I think you and Tim both have valid points. I don't think it's as black and white as Head or Heart. You can make a head move but have heart intentions as well as vice versa. You may perceive the game as making a move that benefits yourself AS WELL as the people you want to see do well. Whereas Tim sees making moves that benefit himself. Neither approach is wrong. If you have the ability to win the game (which you both have) then however you choose to get there is up to you.

The game is a lot more complex and complicated than "head and heart". I think a lot of us are also forgetting the psychological torment that comes with the game of Big Brother. After 56 days of playing with people and feeling lied to, it's no wonder some people have unintentional outbursts. TBH yes, there would be a lot of other people who would catch on to Tim earlier, but you're not at any fault for thinking you could still trust him. That is how you choose to perceive other players and sometimes it does work out that way. You both play the game differently and that's all it is.

We all go on about how we miss the human aspects of Big Brother, so why don't we acknowledge that right now and understand that as a human being Estelle is and was entitled to emotional respond however she wanted to. The same goes for Taras as Tim as well. They all do.

This is such an excellent post!

 

[the Theorist]

Setting aside your conspiracy theory that the public votes aren’t actually used to determine the winner.
The winner of BB is not always the most “deserved”. Even in this format it’s not even the biggest game players, most strategic necessarily. The public are going to vote for Reggie if she is F3 because they love her. Imo she wins even if production didn’t use royal and queen etc.

“Conspiracy theory” or just logic? A lot of us on this forum work in the industry or have insight into how these things work.

Until the Seven series proves it by showing voting percentages (something they have not done since 2020, and no ex-HM has been able to provide any legitimacy on), and as long as the voting is free, online, non-auditable and even hackable (as was proven in 2020 - I didn’t care enough to know about 2021’s system), then the result is entirely up for debate.

 

[bleachy_dude]

This is where I somewhat kind of just feel fine with voting her. Like I mentioned before, Survivor jurors have the right to be bitter when they vote, and if we as public voters choose to vote for someone and completely disregard strategy as our reason then we also have the right to do that.

Yeah. And no doubt Reggie being herself has actually come through this season in a number of situations. Often in her short comments or reactions that show her slightly naive side.

 

[Zcsund1234]

From what I was told a while back, in the contracts it apparently states that channel 7 have "the right to select a winner"

 

[the Theorist]

From what I was told a while back, in the contracts it apparently states that channel 7 have "the right to select a winner"

It blows my mind people still don’t believe this isn’t true.

Not just Big Brother, but EVERY reality tv show on air in Australia at the moment that doesn’t have a paid voting system.